white98ls

I'll play devil's advocate and say:

1) I bet it's easier to find a clean, unmolested CR
2) The ITR was a more complete change from the regular Integra than the CR was vs. a normal S2k. CR was essentially (IIRC) suspension retune, body/interior changes, and some stuff taken out for weight. ITR had that plus 25hp extra hp, 5-lug with bigger brakes, LSD.
3) The ITR was one of the crown jewels of the 2000-era "sport compact" scene - it's an icon. The CR was a last hurrah at the end of a long 10-year model run - it wasn't as significant or sought-after. That counts for a lot with collectible cars, far moreso than which car is "better" or even rarer.

eight

1) He's just saying that it's also rare. But let's look at the numbers here. According to wikipedia, the type R had 3,823 units sold in the US in the 4 years they were in production. The CR had 699 units sold in the US in the 2 years they were in production. If you want to get even rarer, there were only 31 CR's made and sold in 2009. While yes, on the very rare occasion someone does decide to sell their CR, it's only been 9-10 years since it's been released. when compared to 17-21 years.

2) You're not wrong here, the ITR did have a much more drastic change than the CR did but that's not what sells in the aftermarket world. You're really buying it to say you have a type R or a CR, whichever the case may be. A collector's car is a collector's car. I'd much rather have a '09 GPW CR sitting in my garage over a '01 CW ITR

3) The ITR was a crown jewel and I don't want to take anything away from that, however, the s2k was one Honda's greatest achievement. Let's think back to what it was like in the year 2000 when both cars were in production. The s2k had electric power steering, made the most power per liter in the world (at the time), the top goes down and back up faster than any other convertible available at the time and let's not forget it had a full LED dash! I mean seriously... and it was all for 30k. There was nothing the ITR was doing that everyone else wasn't doing already, it was just better put together.



It's also very easy to say that 699 people do not want to sell their car. That is seriously a scary low amount that's out there. If each state had their own equal share of CR's, that's just under 14 CR's per state... That's astoundingly rare. On the same note, if I said 3,828 people didn't want to sell their car, that's a little bit difficult to see happen. That's not even taking into account the number of them crashed, totaled, modified to hell, rusted, etc.

All in all, no this ITR isn't worth it. Definitely not one that's had the frame cut for a JDM conversion.




Edit: I got curious afterwards and looked it up. 6 seconds for the top to either go down or up according to this article written in 2015, it's the fastest.
http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/motorin...11363926979251

superchargedk20

Don't forget stolen ^^^!!!

WolfpackS2k

Not arguing for one or the other, but it's worth mentioning that the ITR's unit body is seam welded and has a few other structural reinforcements that GS-Rs do not. A lot of things make the ITR special, but the aforementioned differences are difficult and/or impossible to replicate (for any reasonable amount of money) on a GS-R.

white98ls

I don't deny that the S2k was one of Honda's greatest, but these items you are talking about are dubious or shared with the ITR. Electric power steering? Yay, S2k was one of the first to have something that sucks on almost every car now (including the S2k - one of its weak points and I'd gladly sacrifice 5hp for better steering feel). Full LED dash? Yeah, my friend's 1987 Subaru Legacy wagon had that too, as did a ton of '80s cars. Highest HP/L? Pretty sure the ITR was right at the top at its time, too. Fastest convertible top? Not on the CR that we're talking about - it doesn't even have a soft top! So these points are kind of moot.
Strongly disagree there.

Name another USDM "sport compact" car that was taking a stripped-out, handling-first, 8400rpm approach. The closest is probably the Celica GT-S, but you don't see many people trying to compare the two today. There were lots of lightweight, racy FWD hatches in Europe but in the U.S.? Hardly. And even amongst all those Euro hot hatches, Evo Magazine (UK) crowned the DC2 ITR the best FWD driver's car of all time in like 2007.
I would almost bet that that even with so many more sold, the number of CLEAN stock ITRs is similar to clean CRs today. What percentage of ITRs were modified, stolen, etc.? And over twice the time period that CRs have been around? A large majority. I mean even this one, which is pretty stock and clean/low mileage, has a completely different front end on it (which I happen to like, but it's beside the point - it's not original). Whereas the CR came out when the S2000 was already quite old news, and was a bit more expensive so likely bought by more serious enthusiasts who aren't just looking to stance their whip and look cool while parked. Most CRs I have seen have been stock or nearly stock and well taken care of. Definitely not true for ITRs.

white98ls

Yep, and no sunroof - pretty sure all GS-Rs had them.

rudyy

@white98ls,

Just curious. If you have $37K to burn and this 98ITR and another 08/09 CR of equivalent condition and mileage on the table, which one will you pick?

white98ls

CR. LOL.

I had an LS Integra that I had modified to perform very similarly to an ITR (won a couple dozen autocrosses in it, in a tough class no less). Loved it to death over 13 years of ownership but I'm not paying $37k for an old FWD Honda. Not to disparage FWD Hondas, it's just not something I'd spend that kind of money on if I can get a lesser (but still great) version for a tiny fraction of the price, while also not worrying about it getting stolen. I've also had an AP1 and would just get a "normal" S2k in the $teens rather than spend 2-3x on a CR that's incrementally better and is rarer. $37k would build an awesome modded S2k!

I get the appeal and don't think the prices are stupid, just not for me. Also, although I love the rare and sought-after combo I have in my M3, I don't like cars that are $$$ just because they are rare and pristine. That just makes me nervous and afraid to use it, park it, etc. for fear of destroying its value. Too much responsibility - cars are supposed to be driven and used.

vader1

I wonder how many times cars that are rare JDM type stuff gets bought by dumb kids on their first job who mortgage the next 7 years of their future to look like a baller on the street with a 20 year old fwd car.

sam_spider

I'm sure there's a lot of people who never thought E30 M3's would fetch $60k +++ (let alone over $100k) in the 2000's, but here we are.

I wouldn't buy this particular ITR at that price due to the front end swap, but to say ITR's won't appreciate is silly IMO.