Anyone worried todays sports and performace cars
11-05-2004, 02:24 PM
#1
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Anyone worried todays sports and performace cars
You can't shift gears on a SLR period. Can't shift on any AMG.
911 turbo AWD
Most Ferrari's are SMGs
All M5's/M6's will be SMG (?) Power "M" button adds exra RPMs and speeds up shifts, firms the suspension etc...
You need a degree just to read about this stuff.
The F430 (god bless it) will be one of the greatest cars ever, but it's got more electro-crap than you'll ever want. To be honest it sounds like a blessing, setting for ice or rain that cuts back the shifts, adaptive damping and ESP threshold plus electro differential (so you don't kill yourself) you can turn everything off for devil may care live on the edge.
But cars like the Elise are few and far between.
Anyone think the technology is taking over?
911 turbo AWD
Most Ferrari's are SMGs
All M5's/M6's will be SMG (?) Power "M" button adds exra RPMs and speeds up shifts, firms the suspension etc...
You need a degree just to read about this stuff.
The F430 (god bless it) will be one of the greatest cars ever, but it's got more electro-crap than you'll ever want. To be honest it sounds like a blessing, setting for ice or rain that cuts back the shifts, adaptive damping and ESP threshold plus electro differential (so you don't kill yourself) you can turn everything off for devil may care live on the edge.
But cars like the Elise are few and far between.
Anyone think the technology is taking over?
11-05-2004, 03:34 PM
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Technology is great and keeps the competition tight. What I don't like is when car manufacturers become too restrictive. For example, the next M5 won't be available in a manual? Are you kidding me? I don't care if it's Tiptronic, 6/7 speed SMG, or DSG - I want my manual!!! I really don't care if Porsche offers their sports cars in an Auto (and I'm sure they wouldn't if they had an endless amount of $$ reserves for the company) as long as I can get mine in a manual.
As for Mercedes, they've never been into shifting anyway. The E55 would be awesome with a re-tuned suspension and a 6-speed manual.
The RS6 needs a manual.
True, the 911 turbo is AWD but what's wrong with that? You can still do a lot of things with AWD and if buyers don't want it, they can get the 911 GT2, GT3 or C2. My 996: rear wheel drive, no PSM, no navigation, no heated seats, no power seats... nothing, except for 18" wheels and xenon lights. It's probably the cheapest 996 on the road but it's a blast to drive. Okay, I'm obviously biased towards Porsches as you can see.
BMWs are going too far, especially if they ONLY offer something in SMG mode with their crappy i-drive. Haven't they read enough reviews where the BMW failed to finish in the top 3 just because of i-drive? I also prefer the older M3s over the newer one, which by the way in my opinion is over priced.
At least there are still the Elise and S2000s!
As for Mercedes, they've never been into shifting anyway. The E55 would be awesome with a re-tuned suspension and a 6-speed manual.
The RS6 needs a manual.
True, the 911 turbo is AWD but what's wrong with that? You can still do a lot of things with AWD and if buyers don't want it, they can get the 911 GT2, GT3 or C2. My 996: rear wheel drive, no PSM, no navigation, no heated seats, no power seats... nothing, except for 18" wheels and xenon lights. It's probably the cheapest 996 on the road but it's a blast to drive. Okay, I'm obviously biased towards Porsches as you can see.
BMWs are going too far, especially if they ONLY offer something in SMG mode with their crappy i-drive. Haven't they read enough reviews where the BMW failed to finish in the top 3 just because of i-drive? I also prefer the older M3s over the newer one, which by the way in my opinion is over priced.
At least there are still the Elise and S2000s!
11-05-2004, 04:08 PM
#3
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As with anything, when the state-of-the-art pushes a certain point, there is an inclination for a chunk of the market to push back. Hence the Elise's MR2s and S2000's.
On an even higher end, I don't think Panoz has added any technology beyond weight reduction, geometry and braking. Does anyone know whether Saleen and/or McLaren has gone completely off the drivers-end of the deep end?
Technology sells cars, and high-technology is what many high-end car buyers want. And yes, there are those who like to K.I.S.S. (myself more and more becoming the latter).
However, car companys only sell (sometimes on purpose) a finite number of high end cars. In this event, profit margins are maintained by not having as many options, especially on tough-to-tool-up parts like transmissions or AWD diffs.
I'm a bit of a home audio enthusiast, and you see the same thing. The brands with some notoriety sell $$$ equipment on the bleeding edge, while another company will sell $$$ for what pans out to be elegantly simple tube designs. There are good examples of both, there's a market for both, and the company's that are in the high-end offer only a few options (if any - and at a premium).
On an even higher end, I don't think Panoz has added any technology beyond weight reduction, geometry and braking. Does anyone know whether Saleen and/or McLaren has gone completely off the drivers-end of the deep end?
Technology sells cars, and high-technology is what many high-end car buyers want. And yes, there are those who like to K.I.S.S. (myself more and more becoming the latter).
However, car companys only sell (sometimes on purpose) a finite number of high end cars. In this event, profit margins are maintained by not having as many options, especially on tough-to-tool-up parts like transmissions or AWD diffs.
I'm a bit of a home audio enthusiast, and you see the same thing. The brands with some notoriety sell $$$ equipment on the bleeding edge, while another company will sell $$$ for what pans out to be elegantly simple tube designs. There are good examples of both, there's a market for both, and the company's that are in the high-end offer only a few options (if any - and at a premium).
11-05-2004, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cayenne_S2000,Nov 5 2004, 06:34 PM
The RS6 needs a manual.
11-05-2004, 04:27 PM
#5
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If you can't own one, I reccommend having the owner of one treat to dinner at a fine restaraunt, and then have said RS6 owner decide you're the DD.
11-05-2004, 06:27 PM
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I guess the Ford GT is pretty basic.
I'm just thinking that some day Ferrari will have keyless-go, magna-ride, active aero, "F" power button, drive by wire etc...
I'm just thinking that some day Ferrari will have keyless-go, magna-ride, active aero, "F" power button, drive by wire etc...
11-05-2004, 07:50 PM
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I'm not against SMG, and I like it as an alternative. Unfortunately, the only SMG-equipped car I've driven is an M3 and it felt awkward in some stop-and-go driving.
I don't like the various electro-nannies that are popping up on new cars.
I don't like the plastic covers hiding the engine.
I don't like the various electro-nannies that are popping up on new cars.
I don't like the plastic covers hiding the engine.
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11-05-2004, 10:01 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Cayenne_S2000,Nov 5 2004, 05:34 PM
Technology is great and keeps the competition tight. What I don't like is when car manufacturers become too restrictive. For example, the next M5 won't be available in a manual? Are you kidding me? I don't care if it's Tiptronic, 6/7 speed SMG, or DSG - I want my manual!!! I really don't care if Porsche offers their sports cars in an Auto (and I'm sure they wouldn't if they had an endless amount of $$ reserves for the company) as long as I can get mine in a manual.
As for Mercedes, they've never been into shifting anyway. The E55 would be awesome with a re-tuned suspension and a 6-speed manual.
The RS6 needs a manual.
True, the 911 turbo is AWD but what's wrong with that? You can still do a lot of things with AWD and if buyers don't want it, they can get the 911 GT2, GT3 or C2. My 996: rear wheel drive, no PSM, no navigation, no heated seats, no power seats... nothing, except for 18" wheels and xenon lights. It's probably the cheapest 996 on the road but it's a blast to drive. Okay, I'm obviously biased towards Porsches as you can see.
BMWs are going too far, especially if they ONLY offer something in SMG mode with their crappy i-drive. Haven't they read enough reviews where the BMW failed to finish in the top 3 just because of i-drive? I also prefer the older M3s over the newer one, which by the way in my opinion is over priced.
At least there are still the Elise and S2000s!
As for Mercedes, they've never been into shifting anyway. The E55 would be awesome with a re-tuned suspension and a 6-speed manual.
The RS6 needs a manual.
True, the 911 turbo is AWD but what's wrong with that? You can still do a lot of things with AWD and if buyers don't want it, they can get the 911 GT2, GT3 or C2. My 996: rear wheel drive, no PSM, no navigation, no heated seats, no power seats... nothing, except for 18" wheels and xenon lights. It's probably the cheapest 996 on the road but it's a blast to drive. Okay, I'm obviously biased towards Porsches as you can see.
BMWs are going too far, especially if they ONLY offer something in SMG mode with their crappy i-drive. Haven't they read enough reviews where the BMW failed to finish in the top 3 just because of i-drive? I also prefer the older M3s over the newer one, which by the way in my opinion is over priced.
At least there are still the Elise and S2000s!
11-06-2004, 03:27 AM
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Yes, I agree with the main sentiment.
Through in active steering, active suspensions, stability/traction control. And all the electronics that sometimes makes the job harder or likely prone to failure (i-drive, keyless doors and ignition).
No big deal if you can delete the option or choose to disable them. Personally, if I had TC & DSC, I'd have them on 95% of the time. But I'd shut them down for auto-X and some spirited driving.
Another pure sports car not mentioned: Miata.
Through in active steering, active suspensions, stability/traction control. And all the electronics that sometimes makes the job harder or likely prone to failure (i-drive, keyless doors and ignition).
No big deal if you can delete the option or choose to disable them. Personally, if I had TC & DSC, I'd have them on 95% of the time. But I'd shut them down for auto-X and some spirited driving.
Another pure sports car not mentioned: Miata.