The big shifting of the car world
12-06-2018, 01:12 PM
#71
So, why is all this going to happen and fast? This article I read (wish I could remember where) said profits per vehicle is going to go up dramatically for the automaker when they own their own fleet and do subscription services since one car can service a lot of subscriptions. More and more younger kids don't want to mess with owning and maintaining a car anyway, especially those that live in dense urban areas where parking is very expensive. So, to keep the profit train churning, all automakers are working very heavily towards this new model for vehicle sales. I also read that Honda and GM are working together on this initiative which I found interesting. Here is a link to that big partnership with GM Cruise LLC:
) I happened to open it up and re-read the original post and thought about this subscription thing a bit, autonomous especially. I know it is part of the future but I don't have any interest at all. I like owning cars. I think a lot of people do. They take pride in them, they customize their trucks, they do all sorts of things. I don't think that is going away. I am interested in going from 2 to 3 for myself personally.They are also a way people express themselves. New Wranglers are selling like hotcakes and not just to people who go off road. I am attracted to buying one because they just seem like they are pretty cool to me, and I admit, it is probably an image thing only. It is a cool shiny new thing that I really like for some reason, mostly because it is no longer a penalty box rattle trap. I can put a snow plow on it for my 100 yard driveway, I can't do that with a subscription car. My car would not be just transportation, it would be a tool that helps me personally with a need.
People buy them as an offshoot of their own personality. What will subscription drone cars offer me? And if they don't figure that one out, I just buy the cheapest one I can find and the profit goes out. If it is some transportation box that picks me up and I sit and do nothing, might as well be the Kia or the cheapest one from China as long as the seats are comfortable. The Porsche one could pick me up, but it aint mine. I am just a renter. And even the nicest ones will still be a mess from the sloppy people on the same subscription that don't own it so they treat it like the back seat of an old taxi. Full of some kids puke, or half a smoked joint, and wrappers and half eaten food left in it. Maybe it smells like BO and curry farts. I keep my stuff really nice. Can I count on the car running around all day with people getting in and out to be the same?
I think many people will find it cool, but more still won't want to go that route. Apple is on it's second (or is it third?) attempt to get people to buy Apple Watch/Iwatch's without much luck. Google Glass was an unmitigated disaster. The Segway was going to revolutionize personal travel. For each of these we had media types hyping the greatest new idea, but the public rolled over and went to sleep. For the people in their forties like me the industry was always telling me "you want a new car!" Now they have to de-program me into thinking, "The last thing you want is to OWN a car, you want this thing you never even considered instead!" That is going to be a really tough sell to a lot of people. Even the millennials I know who embrace every new thing and futuristic, they love their cars if you ask them. "I got a new Tesla! Prius! Subaru Crosstrek!" Take all the marketing you've done for the last 50 years and tell people it was all wrong, go to the new model of NOT having a car.
The more I think about the prospect, the less appealing it is, even if owning costs me more. You'd almost have to make it cost prohibitive to get people out of owning with collusion from auto insurance or something, but then they would be agreeing to give up their business by insuring fewer cars. Seems a long way off before full adoption. Skeptical.
12-06-2018, 01:37 PM
#72
One of the local dealership groups is offering a service to allow you to access a bunch of luxury vehicles via a subscription model. For a base price of $2500/month, you can drive about 1550 miles a month in any of their luxury vehicles. They bring the cars to you, you can swap four times a month (more, if you're one of the first 25 subscribers) and you can pre-book them for specific dates as well, if you wish. They pay for all insurance and you just have to put gas in (they provide it with a full tank and you have to return it with a full tank, or be charged the cost to refuel).
Considering what it costs to lease a base Porsche 911 here in Canada for 24 months ($2365/month), that's a pretty good deal but you can swap it out for an AWD Cayenne or a Range Rover if you're headed to the mountains for a weekend of skiing, etc.
Volvo effectively already does this with their "Care" program (they even pay for insurance) and they sold out their XC40 SUV in short order, using that service.
Considering what it costs to lease a base Porsche 911 here in Canada for 24 months ($2365/month), that's a pretty good deal but you can swap it out for an AWD Cayenne or a Range Rover if you're headed to the mountains for a weekend of skiing, etc.
Volvo effectively already does this with their "Care" program (they even pay for insurance) and they sold out their XC40 SUV in short order, using that service.
12-06-2018, 01:48 PM
#73
Community Organizer
I bought my S2000 in 2016. It had already been built, it was a sunk cost and sees MAYBE 3000 miles a year.
It gets 28 MPG, is in great mechanical condition, etc., in other words it is cleaner than many, many folks' daily driven cars.
My daily gets 38-40 MPG, I bought used, keep in great mechanical condition, etc.
I have no intention of ever buying another car, limiting my emissions going forward.
I don't drive on the weekends because I live in a city center, I don't drive after work, again because I can walk everywhere.
I'm a vegetarian, again cutting a bunch of emissions (replacing one 5 oz steak a week with beans is equivalent to not using 38 gallons of gas each year per WaPo).
I keep residence cold in the winter and hot in the summer to save on HVAC usage.
sooooooooooooo, yeah my S2000 is of absolutely minimal impact relative to what the average person produces each and every year.
It gets 28 MPG, is in great mechanical condition, etc., in other words it is cleaner than many, many folks' daily driven cars.
My daily gets 38-40 MPG, I bought used, keep in great mechanical condition, etc.
I have no intention of ever buying another car, limiting my emissions going forward.
I don't drive on the weekends because I live in a city center, I don't drive after work, again because I can walk everywhere.
I'm a vegetarian, again cutting a bunch of emissions (replacing one 5 oz steak a week with beans is equivalent to not using 38 gallons of gas each year per WaPo).
I keep residence cold in the winter and hot in the summer to save on HVAC usage.
sooooooooooooo, yeah my S2000 is of absolutely minimal impact relative to what the average person produces each and every year.
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ninetysixyenko (12-17-2018)
12-06-2018, 01:51 PM
#74
12-06-2018, 02:02 PM
#75
Community Organizer
You can laugh but we can't procreate, I have no issues tracking my S2000 or any other "wasteful" tendencies. I'm good for life with the whole carbon thing.
As far as autonomous goes, if traveling and it was an option as a taxi service, I'd try it for the experience just to say I did but that's about it.
I'm hoping Cody adopts.
As far as autonomous goes, if traveling and it was an option as a taxi service, I'd try it for the experience just to say I did but that's about it.
I'm hoping Cody adopts.
12-07-2018, 03:41 AM
#76
Moderator
So after helping derail the thread (Sorry, not sorry ) I happened to open it up and re-read the original post and thought about this subscription thing a bit, autonomous especially. I know it is part of the future but I don't have any interest at all. I like owning cars. I think a lot of people do. They take pride in them, they customize their trucks, they do all sorts of things. I don't think that is going away. I am interested in going from 2 to 3 for myself personally.
They are also a way people express themselves. New Wranglers are selling like hotcakes and not just to people who go off road. I am attracted to buying one because they just seem like they are pretty cool to me, and I admit, it is probably an image thing only. It is a cool shiny new thing that I really like for some reason, mostly because it is no longer a penalty box rattle trap. I can put a snow plow on it for my 100 yard driveway, I can't do that with a subscription car. My car would not be just transportation, it would be a tool that helps me personally with a need.
People buy them as an offshoot of their own personality. What will subscription drone cars offer me? And if they don't figure that one out, I just buy the cheapest one I can find and the profit goes out. If it is some transportation box that picks me up and I sit and do nothing, might as well be the Kia or the cheapest one from China as long as the seats are comfortable. The Porsche one could pick me up, but it aint mine. I am just a renter. And even the nicest ones will still be a mess from the sloppy people on the same subscription that don't own it so they treat it like the back seat of an old taxi. Full of some kids puke, or half a smoked joint, and wrappers and half eaten food left in it. Maybe it smells like BO and curry farts. I keep my stuff really nice. Can I count on the car running around all day with people getting in and out to be the same?
I think many people will find it cool, but more still won't want to go that route. Apple is on it's second (or is it third?) attempt to get people to buy Apple Watch/Iwatch's without much luck. Google Glass was an unmitigated disaster. The Segway was going to revolutionize personal travel. For each of these we had media types hyping the greatest new idea, but the public rolled over and went to sleep. For the people in their forties like me the industry was always telling me "you want a new car!" Now they have to de-program me into thinking, "The last thing you want is to OWN a car, you want this thing you never even considered instead!" That is going to be a really tough sell to a lot of people. Even the millennials I know who embrace every new thing and futuristic, they love their cars if you ask them. "I got a new Tesla! Prius! Subaru Crosstrek!" Take all the marketing you've done for the last 50 years and tell people it was all wrong, go to the new model of NOT having a car.
The more I think about the prospect, the less appealing it is, even if owning costs me more. You'd almost have to make it cost prohibitive to get people out of owning with collusion from auto insurance or something, but then they would be agreeing to give up their business by insuring fewer cars. Seems a long way off before full adoption. Skeptical.
) I happened to open it up and re-read the original post and thought about this subscription thing a bit, autonomous especially. I know it is part of the future but I don't have any interest at all. I like owning cars. I think a lot of people do. They take pride in them, they customize their trucks, they do all sorts of things. I don't think that is going away. I am interested in going from 2 to 3 for myself personally.They are also a way people express themselves. New Wranglers are selling like hotcakes and not just to people who go off road. I am attracted to buying one because they just seem like they are pretty cool to me, and I admit, it is probably an image thing only. It is a cool shiny new thing that I really like for some reason, mostly because it is no longer a penalty box rattle trap. I can put a snow plow on it for my 100 yard driveway, I can't do that with a subscription car. My car would not be just transportation, it would be a tool that helps me personally with a need.
People buy them as an offshoot of their own personality. What will subscription drone cars offer me? And if they don't figure that one out, I just buy the cheapest one I can find and the profit goes out. If it is some transportation box that picks me up and I sit and do nothing, might as well be the Kia or the cheapest one from China as long as the seats are comfortable. The Porsche one could pick me up, but it aint mine. I am just a renter. And even the nicest ones will still be a mess from the sloppy people on the same subscription that don't own it so they treat it like the back seat of an old taxi. Full of some kids puke, or half a smoked joint, and wrappers and half eaten food left in it. Maybe it smells like BO and curry farts. I keep my stuff really nice. Can I count on the car running around all day with people getting in and out to be the same?
I think many people will find it cool, but more still won't want to go that route. Apple is on it's second (or is it third?) attempt to get people to buy Apple Watch/Iwatch's without much luck. Google Glass was an unmitigated disaster. The Segway was going to revolutionize personal travel. For each of these we had media types hyping the greatest new idea, but the public rolled over and went to sleep. For the people in their forties like me the industry was always telling me "you want a new car!" Now they have to de-program me into thinking, "The last thing you want is to OWN a car, you want this thing you never even considered instead!" That is going to be a really tough sell to a lot of people. Even the millennials I know who embrace every new thing and futuristic, they love their cars if you ask them. "I got a new Tesla! Prius! Subaru Crosstrek!" Take all the marketing you've done for the last 50 years and tell people it was all wrong, go to the new model of NOT having a car.
The more I think about the prospect, the less appealing it is, even if owning costs me more. You'd almost have to make it cost prohibitive to get people out of owning with collusion from auto insurance or something, but then they would be agreeing to give up their business by insuring fewer cars. Seems a long way off before full adoption. Skeptical.
I talk with people and I think the majority look at things like electric cars as close but not there yet. Many can't justify the cost of one versus a normal car because they don't make local dollars and cents. You'd have to have some level of worldwide consciousness to say things like "I drive an EV to invest in the world," and that's fine if that's where you want to spend you money. Same things with other technology - sometimes its just not "there" yet, like Google's Glass, sometimes its really just a glorified fitness tracker, like an Apple Watch. Segways have always been too expensive, but look at scooter shares - for a buck, you get easy transport at 10 mph and they are really popular.
At the end of the day, you'll make up your mind on cost and the experience it delivers. Once the autonomous hurdles are sorted, you're going to see a flood of competition in things like autonomous, on-demand personal transport, which I think is great, so long as I can also take my oil burner out for a spin. I can deal with some dirty looks from eco-snobs.
12-07-2018, 05:05 AM
#77
One of the local dealership groups is offering a service to allow you to access a bunch of luxury vehicles via a subscription model. For a base price of $2500/month, you can drive about 1550 miles a month in any of their luxury vehicles. They bring the cars to you, you can swap four times a month (more, if you're one of the first 25 subscribers) and you can pre-book them for specific dates as well, if you wish. They pay for all insurance and you just have to put gas in (they provide it with a full tank and you have to return it with a full tank, or be charged the cost to refuel).
Considering what it costs to lease a base Porsche 911 here in Canada for 24 months ($2365/month), that's a pretty good deal but you can swap it out for an AWD Cayenne or a Range Rover if you're headed to the mountains for a weekend of skiing, etc.
Volvo effectively already does this with their "Care" program (they even pay for insurance) and they sold out their XC40 SUV in short order, using that service.
Considering what it costs to lease a base Porsche 911 here in Canada for 24 months ($2365/month), that's a pretty good deal but you can swap it out for an AWD Cayenne or a Range Rover if you're headed to the mountains for a weekend of skiing, etc.
Volvo effectively already does this with their "Care" program (they even pay for insurance) and they sold out their XC40 SUV in short order, using that service.
12-07-2018, 06:34 AM
#78
12-09-2018, 12:55 PM
#79
Community Organizer
Volvo showed up to the LA Auto Show with no cars. And a sign that said, "Don't Buy Our Cars" or something to that effect. They want to sell you a subscription service.
12-09-2018, 02:34 PM
#80
They did that for the press day.
Cars were back out for the public show.
It was a publicity stunt.
Cars were back out for the public show.
It was a publicity stunt.