c7 to get 450hp V8 - link
10-26-2012, 09:45 AM
#11
Power and performance have never been an issue for the Corvette. Styling, both inside and out along with reliability have held the Corvette back from dominating the market in it's price segment. Corvette has the most awful looking interior available in a sportscar. So cheap and hooky looking. The also have to transition to carbon fiber panels throughout. Fiberglass is long in the tooth.
10-26-2012, 10:35 AM
#12
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I could see the interior arguments when people were bashing the C5 vettes, but IMO the C6 interior was just fine. Sure, its not Porsche quality.. but its not a Porsche. I wouldnt argue with a nicer interior, but the vette isnt a luxury coupe, its an american sports car. As long as it works and is laid out well, and materials arent super cheap, who cares? As for the new power figures, Im completely fine with that, as Im hoping the car will be lighter and smaller. Id rather them shave off some fat and have no power bump at all, than add 100lbs and give it 50 more HP. I wouldn't necessarily call the current C6 "too heavy", but I certainly thing it looks a little chunky and big.
10-27-2012, 04:29 PM
#14
The 300 hp LT1 C4 engine was in the majority of C4 until the C5 came out. However, not all C4 Vettes had LT1, some had the 330 hp LT4 (the Grand Sport, the CE silver with 6-speed).
10-27-2012, 08:28 PM
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I wonder if GM is in a situation where marketing is holding the power back. Porsche clearly does this all the time. It seems like every three years they just "find" some extra power yet they the Cayman engineers can never quite find as much power as the 911 engineers using the exact same engine. It's almost like they are told to leave power on the table...
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I have a feeling that all this new technology is meant specifically to increase efficiency/power in their truck line...the fact that it passes down to the Corvette program is an added bonus.
10-27-2012, 08:31 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by rockville' timestamp='1351261117' post='22110053
I wonder if GM is in a situation where marketing is holding the power back. Porsche clearly does this all the time. It seems like every three years they just "find" some extra power yet they the Cayman engineers can never quite find as much power as the 911 engineers using the exact same engine. It's almost like they are told to leave power on the table...
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I have a feeling that all this new technology is meant specifically to increase efficiency/power in their truck line...the fact that it passes down to the Corvette program is an added bonus.
Any Chrysler doesn't sell many vipers so it's not just about economies of scale. Simple engines are cheaper and other marquees know people will pay a lot for their engines.
10-27-2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rockville' timestamp='1351261117' post='22110053
I wonder if GM is in a situation where marketing is holding the power back. Porsche clearly does this all the time. It seems like every three years they just "find" some extra power yet they the Cayman engineers can never quite find as much power as the 911 engineers using the exact same engine. It's almost like they are told to leave power on the table...
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I have a feeling that all this new technology is meant specifically to increase efficiency/power in their truck line...the fact that it passes down to the Corvette program is an added bonus.
I used to tell people the cost of one "cheap" molded plastic part is $10,000. The cost of two is $10,000.05 The cost of 10,000 is $10,500. The cost of a machined part is $500 and the cost of two is $1000. Which part is cheaper? How many do you want?
10-27-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 20aeman' timestamp='1351398495' post='22113175
[quote name='rockville' timestamp='1351261117' post='22110053']
I wonder if GM is in a situation where marketing is holding the power back. Porsche clearly does this all the time. It seems like every three years they just "find" some extra power yet they the Cayman engineers can never quite find as much power as the 911 engineers using the exact same engine. It's almost like they are told to leave power on the table...
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I wonder if GM is in a situation where marketing is holding the power back. Porsche clearly does this all the time. It seems like every three years they just "find" some extra power yet they the Cayman engineers can never quite find as much power as the 911 engineers using the exact same engine. It's almost like they are told to leave power on the table...
I could see GM doing the same thing. It's not like GM is losing the HP race. So long as they are winning and so long as the C7 offers a number of things other than power to entice buyers to go for a C7 vs left over C6 I don't see them feeling the need more than a modest bump to sell the new cars.
I suppose there is also the question of just how much is too much. Traction and stability controls have helped make what were ZR-1 power levels more manageable for the masses (I still surprised the old car didn't have something like a 150hp valet mode). There is also a notion of cost. The LS7 clearly showed the LS family could produce more power than the 432 of the LS3. However, I suspect the LS7 cost quite a bit more to make. A few of the upgrade parts might add substantially to the overall cost of the motor. IIRC (and I may not) the rods were quite a bit more expensive than the LS3 rods. The valves would also require a premium (sodium filled vs solid). There were probably a number of other parts that result in a significant increase in build cost. It's possible that the LS3 was about as good as the LS family could do without a big bump in cost. Things like DI might have allowed GM to get that bump in performance without resorting to forged rods and the like.
Anyway, the 450 number is as likely as not what GM decided to give the car rather than any limit of the motor or even limit at a set price point. It will be interesting to see how far GM takes this new motor.
One final thing, I haven't driven an LS3 but the LS2 Vette I drove was not overly smooth at idle. Not rough mind you but not glass smooth like say a Tundra V8. I've always assumed this was a combination of the way the motor was mounted in the Vette plus the need for a relatively high lift cam. I'm wondering if the new motor will be smoother.
I have a feeling that all this new technology is meant specifically to increase efficiency/power in their truck line...the fact that it passes down to the Corvette program is an added bonus.
Any Chrysler doesn't sell many vipers so it's not just about economies of scale. Simple engines are cheaper and other marquees know people will pay a lot for their engines.
[/quote]
There are probably more Ram SRT-10s out there than there are Vipers. So yeah, some of the costs of that engine have been spread across the Chrysler truck range.
Also, a V10 crate engine being 5k sounds extremely dubious to me.