Continued progress in the American Auto Business
01-13-2011, 07:13 AM
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Continued progress in the American Auto Business
Caveat.. I don't own an American car but I like when American companies continue to perform at a profitable level, call it patriotism or simply rooting for the underdog.
Years ago (e.g. 5), I was always concerned when the leads of the companies refused to admit they were struggling or their cars lacked something (style, quality, etc). They were betting on incentives while turning a blind eye to their failures.
Now, in the past few years it is nice to see flashes of change occurring, be it Ford's resurgence in technology and dare I say style, GM's revamp of its interiors (not Porsche quality but still far nicer), etc.
In addition, the leads seem to be more transparent about where they see issues with their products or what the companies are doing to advance their place in the market. As an example, I saw this on the web:
"Chrysler chief Sergio Marchionne, told reporters at the Detroit Auto Show that the Nitro and its platform mate, the Jeep Liberty, are "the most significant hole in our product portfolio. Noting that "it needs to be replaced," Marchionne suggested that a decision on a replacement for the Pentastar's uncompetitive midsize 'ute platform will be made in the next 40 days..."
Stating there is a problem is the first step to solving it.. The fact that they let the Nitro go into production is a clear indication Chrysler was failing (well so did their financial statements) but it seemed like in prior years the leads simply turned a blind eye. I like the fact Marchionne is admitting an issue exists and is working to solve it.
Will I buy a Chrysler product, no idea, I do like the 4 door Wranglers. Is it better that GM and Chrysler went through bankruptcy, well it did free them up to stay alive so draw what conclusions you like.
Yes, I know Chrysler merged with Fiat so the statement "American Car Company" may not be entirely accurate but there are still a fair amount of American workers involved in the company so it is a net positive in my book.
That is all
P.S. I have driven a lot of Nitros and Libertys as rental cars, the only thing they seem to succeed at is taking speed humps at 55 mph, they lift the rear tires and have a tendency of throwing luggage from the rear cargo space onto the rear seat passengers... Not that I have ever done that, just what I hear.
Years ago (e.g. 5), I was always concerned when the leads of the companies refused to admit they were struggling or their cars lacked something (style, quality, etc). They were betting on incentives while turning a blind eye to their failures.
Now, in the past few years it is nice to see flashes of change occurring, be it Ford's resurgence in technology and dare I say style, GM's revamp of its interiors (not Porsche quality but still far nicer), etc.
In addition, the leads seem to be more transparent about where they see issues with their products or what the companies are doing to advance their place in the market. As an example, I saw this on the web:
"Chrysler chief Sergio Marchionne, told reporters at the Detroit Auto Show that the Nitro and its platform mate, the Jeep Liberty, are "the most significant hole in our product portfolio. Noting that "it needs to be replaced," Marchionne suggested that a decision on a replacement for the Pentastar's uncompetitive midsize 'ute platform will be made in the next 40 days..."
Stating there is a problem is the first step to solving it.. The fact that they let the Nitro go into production is a clear indication Chrysler was failing (well so did their financial statements) but it seemed like in prior years the leads simply turned a blind eye. I like the fact Marchionne is admitting an issue exists and is working to solve it.
Will I buy a Chrysler product, no idea, I do like the 4 door Wranglers. Is it better that GM and Chrysler went through bankruptcy, well it did free them up to stay alive so draw what conclusions you like.
Yes, I know Chrysler merged with Fiat so the statement "American Car Company" may not be entirely accurate but there are still a fair amount of American workers involved in the company so it is a net positive in my book.
That is all
P.S. I have driven a lot of Nitros and Libertys as rental cars, the only thing they seem to succeed at is taking speed humps at 55 mph, they lift the rear tires and have a tendency of throwing luggage from the rear cargo space onto the rear seat passengers... Not that I have ever done that, just what I hear.
01-13-2011, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for the post. FYI, Chrysler didn't actually merge with Fiat. Their relationship is like the Ford-Mazda relationship. They are separate companies but Fiat has a controlling stake in Chrysler. Because of that the two companies will work closely with each other just as Ford and Mazda did.
I think all of the D3 still have holes. Ford is well covered in the Ford line as soon as the new Focus is out (Escape is also old) but for the moment almost completely lacks a luxury line. GM has some holes where old products sit (DTS, STS, Colorado Pickup, any lower cost sports sedan under the CTS). I think the newest GM cars, especially the post bankruptcy have shown that GM interiors are now on par with the competition. It's OK to not match Porsche (though I wouldn't use Porsche as my standard since they don't match Audi for instance) because there is almost no price overlap in the two lineups.
Chrysler is the most hit or miss. The few revamped interiors are worlds better than those designed when Mercedes was strangling the company. The newest ones seem to be on par with the industry and happily, they don't look like any other interior. However, the company completely lacks a credible CUV and smaller cars. They have no luxury line since Chrysler ceased being a luxury brand decades ago. They have Jeep but that's only so much in the days of $3+ gallon gas. They do have good trucks from what I read. Anyway, I hope they do well. I would love to see the domestics rise back to power based on strong products, not patriot fervor. Fervor might sell D3 cars in the US but it won't improve sales over seas.
I think all of the D3 still have holes. Ford is well covered in the Ford line as soon as the new Focus is out (Escape is also old) but for the moment almost completely lacks a luxury line. GM has some holes where old products sit (DTS, STS, Colorado Pickup, any lower cost sports sedan under the CTS). I think the newest GM cars, especially the post bankruptcy have shown that GM interiors are now on par with the competition. It's OK to not match Porsche (though I wouldn't use Porsche as my standard since they don't match Audi for instance) because there is almost no price overlap in the two lineups.
Chrysler is the most hit or miss. The few revamped interiors are worlds better than those designed when Mercedes was strangling the company. The newest ones seem to be on par with the industry and happily, they don't look like any other interior. However, the company completely lacks a credible CUV and smaller cars. They have no luxury line since Chrysler ceased being a luxury brand decades ago. They have Jeep but that's only so much in the days of $3+ gallon gas. They do have good trucks from what I read. Anyway, I hope they do well. I would love to see the domestics rise back to power based on strong products, not patriot fervor. Fervor might sell D3 cars in the US but it won't improve sales over seas.
01-13-2011, 07:48 AM
#3
Good thread. Never thought I'd even remotely consider stepping foot in a Chrysler dealer for anything save maybe the ACR Viper, but reading some recent articles about how they are turning themselves around impressed me. They still have a long way to go, but they are now headed in the right direction with Marchionne at the helm. Heck, that Fiat 500 looks pretty sweet even. That will really help dealership traffic when that get that little guy on the showroom floor.
Ford and GM are getting better monthly. Every new product is dramatically better than the previous and getting ever closer to be competitive on the world stage with some models already there.
Lord knows America needs to reprop it's manufacturing base as tens of millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost to overseas. It's a dangerous scenario for the USA to not have any significant manufacturing base here if things continue as they have been going.
Ford and GM are getting better monthly. Every new product is dramatically better than the previous and getting ever closer to be competitive on the world stage with some models already there.
Lord knows America needs to reprop it's manufacturing base as tens of millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost to overseas. It's a dangerous scenario for the USA to not have any significant manufacturing base here if things continue as they have been going.
01-13-2011, 08:08 AM
#4
About the only things that I like in the Chrysler/Dodge lineup are the Viper, the Ram pickup and (gasp) the new Durango (that thing is a looker!). Still, I'd probably buy something else as an alternative to each of those vehicles...
Ford is definitely a leader right now. I will continue to point out how bloated (in terms of weight) their vehicles are, as well as their higher price points compared to many competitors, but they have excellent styling and features with some pretty nice motors. I'd probably choose a new Ford Explorer over a Pilot right now, for instance. Problem is, it's practically at MDX price levels at top trim levels and I'd definitely take an MDX instead.
As far as GM goes, I haven't driven a Cruze yet but it certainly LOOKS way better than the Cobalt. I think the new Civic is going to leave it for dead, though. I like the Vette and CTS-V but their trucks don't particularly appeal to me and the rest of their passenger cars are pretty bland as well. As Corey pointed out, though, their comparative improvement to their prior products is excellent and Cadillac has a 3-Series competitor (ATS) coming soon that might be pretty sharp.
Ford is definitely a leader right now. I will continue to point out how bloated (in terms of weight) their vehicles are, as well as their higher price points compared to many competitors, but they have excellent styling and features with some pretty nice motors. I'd probably choose a new Ford Explorer over a Pilot right now, for instance. Problem is, it's practically at MDX price levels at top trim levels and I'd definitely take an MDX instead.
As far as GM goes, I haven't driven a Cruze yet but it certainly LOOKS way better than the Cobalt. I think the new Civic is going to leave it for dead, though. I like the Vette and CTS-V but their trucks don't particularly appeal to me and the rest of their passenger cars are pretty bland as well. As Corey pointed out, though, their comparative improvement to their prior products is excellent and Cadillac has a 3-Series competitor (ATS) coming soon that might be pretty sharp.
01-13-2011, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rockville,Jan 13 2011, 10:34 AM
Their relationship is like the Ford-Mazda relationship. They are separate companies but Fiat has a controlling stake in Chrysler.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-10/f...get-is-met.html
As noted in the above link, there is potential for Fiat to increase its stake to 50%. As you pointed out the companies will continue to be separate legal entities but with Fiat having a greater stake (already controlling). So the office stationary will not change but my guess is that large decisions will go through Fiat leadership and it will be like a merger or maybe rather an acquisition.
With that said, all of the above is splitting hairs.
Regarding Porsche interior, agreed, was the first company that came to my mind. Audi is probably the gold standard.
GM has received a nice bump from the Buick Lacrosse that, if I am not mistaken, was designed in China. One hopes Chrysler can receive an Italian influence in their style.
01-13-2011, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JonBoy,Jan 13 2011, 11:08 AM
pretty nice motors
I actually request the Ford Fusion and Mustangs (V6) these days; reasonably quick and decent handling cars. Alan Mulally has done wonders for Ford.
01-13-2011, 09:19 AM
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I've been seriously considering buying a ford fusion as a daily after renting one in florida. They look good, interior is actually really nice, the buttons and other things are nice and tactile, seats are comfy, engine is nice.
I can't believe I like them!
I can't believe I like them!
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01-13-2011, 04:53 PM
#8
I like the new Ford and Buick models. Explorer, new Focus, Mustangs, and the Opel based Buicks. Was at car show recently though and guess where the foot traffic and crowd was? Hyundai. Crowd was your typical middle income average type who I assume are the buyers they are targeting.
01-13-2011, 07:14 PM
#10
The newer Fusions with the updated grill, headlights, and rear are also much nicer looking that the originals, I think. I definitely wouldn't hesitate to own one, even if I'd still take an Accord overall.
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