Discuss: s2000 vs e36 m3
08-20-2007, 11:30 AM
#21
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Having had both - the S2000 is much more fun to drive, while the e36 scores better when it comes to practicality.
If it were possible to mate the m3 w/ the s2000 gearbox, then It'd be difficult to say which is 'better'. But alas, I encountered the 5th gear gate problem which made spirited shifting downright scary (money shift).
Then came the maintenance issues - had to replace the RSM's and LCAB's along with overhauling the cooling system and power steering hoses on the e36. On the S, the only problem I had was soft wheel studs that snapped, which ultimately was my fault.
Oh, there's one thing that the M3 did do better than my s2000, and that was color. Check out my flickr for photos - I believe the Estoril looks better than Spa on film
If it were possible to mate the m3 w/ the s2000 gearbox, then It'd be difficult to say which is 'better'. But alas, I encountered the 5th gear gate problem which made spirited shifting downright scary (money shift).
Then came the maintenance issues - had to replace the RSM's and LCAB's along with overhauling the cooling system and power steering hoses on the e36. On the S, the only problem I had was soft wheel studs that snapped, which ultimately was my fault.
Oh, there's one thing that the M3 did do better than my s2000, and that was color. Check out my flickr for photos - I believe the Estoril looks better than Spa on film
08-20-2007, 11:42 AM
#22
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Good luck finding a clean E36 M3 these days. Most that I've seen are either hopelessly riced out or have uber mileage. You can take your pick from pristine S2000s all day long, any version, any color.
08-20-2007, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by negcamber,Aug 19 2007, 03:46 PM
I've owned both. Straight line it is a drivers race. Ran a friend's e36m3 the night I traded my e36m3 in on the s2k...it was dead even.
Handling is no competition. The stook outperforms the e36m3. Emperically, you can see this in the SCCA classing. The stook started in the same class as the e36m3...the stook quickly dominated the class, became the class benchmark and then was bumped to a faster class.
As far as which would I own...I loved the m3...it was very versitile...it did everything well. The stook is more fun...you can drive it around out of vtec and have a complete blast while not raising the ayre of the local LEOs. The ///M didn't get fun until I was going take-me-to-jail speeds.
Also, the Honda has been much more reliable and less costly to own. Considering the newest e36m3 you can get is 8 years old and you can still buy a new stook, that makes a difference too.
However, if I was living in a place with lots of traffic, I would consider the ///M or an ///M...but probably an e46m3 with smg.
Handling is no competition. The stook outperforms the e36m3. Emperically, you can see this in the SCCA classing. The stook started in the same class as the e36m3...the stook quickly dominated the class, became the class benchmark and then was bumped to a faster class.
As far as which would I own...I loved the m3...it was very versitile...it did everything well. The stook is more fun...you can drive it around out of vtec and have a complete blast while not raising the ayre of the local LEOs. The ///M didn't get fun until I was going take-me-to-jail speeds.
Also, the Honda has been much more reliable and less costly to own. Considering the newest e36m3 you can get is 8 years old and you can still buy a new stook, that makes a difference too.
However, if I was living in a place with lots of traffic, I would consider the ///M or an ///M...but probably an e46m3 with smg.
08-20-2007, 04:02 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by sexycheto88,Aug 20 2007, 03:43 PM
found a good 96 with 63k for 14 the other day. its still do able.
If you can get the maintenace history from the owner and are serious, PM me them and I'll help you out.
08-20-2007, 04:07 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by sexycheto88,Aug 20 2007, 12:40 AM
a turbo kit for the s2k runs roughly around 5k, with around 400ish
i own 99 e36 m3 as a daily and 05 ap2 s2k as my weekend car. m3 is really easy to drive and very comfy cuz of all the spaces you need but not too big. i think off the line m3 will be alot quicker cuz of torque. and it's got decent top end power also. i just happened to race new 335i (twin turbo inline-6) 4dr auto and i was suprised my m3 actually stayed even. the other driver probably dont know how to drive and it was an auto. we werent able to go very fast but i was redlining 2nd and 3rd gear and immedately shut down cuz of curves and he almost bit it due to pushing it too hard to beat me.
as a daily i love e36 m3. it's very fun and easy to drive. s2k is for weekend i dun think i can drive it as a daily car.
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
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I currently own both. 2004 S2000 and 1999 E36 M3. (yes, they still made the E36 M3 in 99; mine was made in the last month of production)
Getting past the obvious (vert vs. non-vert, 2 vs. 4 seats, more room in the M, etc.), but not getting too deep, the cars are actually kind of similar. Front engine, RWD, almost 50/50 weight dist, great handling, 240 HP.
Going deeper, the S is a better handler out of the box. It's just "crisper". Shifter, no contest. Honda quality (nothing really breaks).
However, the M3's much greater low and midrange torque (compared to the S) is addictive. You can't beat that straight 6 for smoothness, and the stock exhaust sounds amazing. It's getting old, though, and BMW parts wear out. Cooling system must be replaced, almost regardless of mileage at this point. Almost all rubber in the car, especially things like suspension bushings, must be replaced as well. Interiors don't hold up as well. Germans do incredible engines, but something happens to the rubber and leather when it crosses the pond.
My S was my track car for my first 2 years of HPDEs. Then, I bought the M3, intending it to be a fun DD while I turned the S into more of a "serious" track car (bar, seats, harnesses, etc.)
But, I made the mistake of taking the M3 to the track, just to see what it's like. Incredible. Much more confidence-inspiring handling. Much more forgiving at the limit. Torque is really nice coming out of low-speed corners. Having a tintop over your head is a nice safety feeling. (I know, it's no substitute for a cage, but it's better than the stock S)
Now, don't get me wrong... the S is an incredible car on the track as well. I love it. But, I just love the M3 more. Maybe it's because I'm not an "expert driver" yet. I also know that if I didn't learn to drive on the track with the S, I wouldn't be as fast as I am in the M3. The S is a great learning car on the track.
So, the M3 is currently in the race shop, getting a whole new suspension, motor & tranny mounts, short shift kit, weld oil pump nut, harnesses... basically, making it a more serious track car but still keeping it street legal.
Postscript to the story: I almost sold my S, because I wasn't driving it anymore, road or track. I decided to start driving it again on the road, and a few minutes with the top down cured me of my wanting to sell it. The S is an amazing car, just like the E36 M3 is. I have the best of both worlds.
--michael
Getting past the obvious (vert vs. non-vert, 2 vs. 4 seats, more room in the M, etc.), but not getting too deep, the cars are actually kind of similar. Front engine, RWD, almost 50/50 weight dist, great handling, 240 HP.
Going deeper, the S is a better handler out of the box. It's just "crisper". Shifter, no contest. Honda quality (nothing really breaks).
However, the M3's much greater low and midrange torque (compared to the S) is addictive. You can't beat that straight 6 for smoothness, and the stock exhaust sounds amazing. It's getting old, though, and BMW parts wear out. Cooling system must be replaced, almost regardless of mileage at this point. Almost all rubber in the car, especially things like suspension bushings, must be replaced as well. Interiors don't hold up as well. Germans do incredible engines, but something happens to the rubber and leather when it crosses the pond.
My S was my track car for my first 2 years of HPDEs. Then, I bought the M3, intending it to be a fun DD while I turned the S into more of a "serious" track car (bar, seats, harnesses, etc.)
But, I made the mistake of taking the M3 to the track, just to see what it's like. Incredible. Much more confidence-inspiring handling. Much more forgiving at the limit. Torque is really nice coming out of low-speed corners. Having a tintop over your head is a nice safety feeling. (I know, it's no substitute for a cage, but it's better than the stock S)
Now, don't get me wrong... the S is an incredible car on the track as well. I love it. But, I just love the M3 more. Maybe it's because I'm not an "expert driver" yet. I also know that if I didn't learn to drive on the track with the S, I wouldn't be as fast as I am in the M3. The S is a great learning car on the track.
So, the M3 is currently in the race shop, getting a whole new suspension, motor & tranny mounts, short shift kit, weld oil pump nut, harnesses... basically, making it a more serious track car but still keeping it street legal.
Postscript to the story: I almost sold my S, because I wasn't driving it anymore, road or track. I decided to start driving it again on the road, and a few minutes with the top down cured me of my wanting to sell it. The S is an amazing car, just like the E36 M3 is. I have the best of both worlds.
--michael
08-20-2007, 07:41 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by weneversleep,Aug 20 2007, 07:37 PM
I currently own both. 2004 S2000 and 1999 E36 M3. (yes, they still made the E36 M3 in 99; mine was made in the last month of production)
Getting past the obvious (vert vs. non-vert, 2 vs. 4 seats, more room in the M, etc.), but not getting too deep, the cars are actually kind of similar. Front engine, RWD, almost 50/50 weight dist, great handling, 240 HP.
Going deeper, the S is a better handler out of the box. It's just "crisper". Shifter, no contest. Honda quality (nothing really breaks).
However, the M3's much greater low and midrange torque (compared to the S) is addictive. You can't beat that straight 6 for smoothness, and the stock exhaust sounds amazing. It's getting old, though, and BMW parts wear out. Cooling system must be replaced, almost regardless of mileage at this point. Almost all rubber in the car, especially things like suspension bushings, must be replaced as well. Interiors don't hold up as well. Germans do incredible engines, but something happens to the rubber and leather when it crosses the pond.
My S was my track car for my first 2 years of HPDEs. Then, I bought the M3, intending it to be a fun DD while I turned the S into more of a "serious" track car (bar, seats, harnesses, etc.)
But, I made the mistake of taking the M3 to the track, just to see what it's like. Incredible. Much more confidence-inspiring handling. Much more forgiving at the limit. Torque is really nice coming out of low-speed corners. Having a tintop over your head is a nice safety feeling. (I know, it's no substitute for a cage, but it's better than the stock S)
Now, don't get me wrong... the S is an incredible car on the track as well. I love it. But, I just love the M3 more. Maybe it's because I'm not an "expert driver" yet. I also know that if I didn't learn to drive on the track with the S, I wouldn't be as fast as I am in the M3. The S is a great learning car on the track.
So, the M3 is currently in the race shop, getting a whole new suspension, motor & tranny mounts, short shift kit, weld oil pump nut, harnesses... basically, making it a more serious track car but still keeping it street legal.
Postscript to the story: I almost sold my S, because I wasn't driving it anymore, road or track. I decided to start driving it again on the road, and a few minutes with the top down cured me of my wanting to sell it. The S is an amazing car, just like the E36 M3 is. I have the best of both worlds.
--michael
Getting past the obvious (vert vs. non-vert, 2 vs. 4 seats, more room in the M, etc.), but not getting too deep, the cars are actually kind of similar. Front engine, RWD, almost 50/50 weight dist, great handling, 240 HP.
Going deeper, the S is a better handler out of the box. It's just "crisper". Shifter, no contest. Honda quality (nothing really breaks).
However, the M3's much greater low and midrange torque (compared to the S) is addictive. You can't beat that straight 6 for smoothness, and the stock exhaust sounds amazing. It's getting old, though, and BMW parts wear out. Cooling system must be replaced, almost regardless of mileage at this point. Almost all rubber in the car, especially things like suspension bushings, must be replaced as well. Interiors don't hold up as well. Germans do incredible engines, but something happens to the rubber and leather when it crosses the pond.
My S was my track car for my first 2 years of HPDEs. Then, I bought the M3, intending it to be a fun DD while I turned the S into more of a "serious" track car (bar, seats, harnesses, etc.)
But, I made the mistake of taking the M3 to the track, just to see what it's like. Incredible. Much more confidence-inspiring handling. Much more forgiving at the limit. Torque is really nice coming out of low-speed corners. Having a tintop over your head is a nice safety feeling. (I know, it's no substitute for a cage, but it's better than the stock S)
Now, don't get me wrong... the S is an incredible car on the track as well. I love it. But, I just love the M3 more. Maybe it's because I'm not an "expert driver" yet. I also know that if I didn't learn to drive on the track with the S, I wouldn't be as fast as I am in the M3. The S is a great learning car on the track.
So, the M3 is currently in the race shop, getting a whole new suspension, motor & tranny mounts, short shift kit, weld oil pump nut, harnesses... basically, making it a more serious track car but still keeping it street legal.
Postscript to the story: I almost sold my S, because I wasn't driving it anymore, road or track. I decided to start driving it again on the road, and a few minutes with the top down cured me of my wanting to sell it. The S is an amazing car, just like the E36 M3 is. I have the best of both worlds.
--michael
Is there any way to fix the rubbery feeling of the shifter in the E36 M3? Do metal shifter bushings and a short-shift kit help?
08-20-2007, 10:35 PM
#29
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ok so i guess this is the setup sexycheto88 was talking about
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=198125
turbo kit - $3995
headgasket - $299
injectors - $139
VAFC - $250?
fuel pump - $179
FMU - $179
total - just over 5k not including tax and installation.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=198125
turbo kit - $3995
headgasket - $299
injectors - $139
VAFC - $250?
fuel pump - $179
FMU - $179
total - just over 5k not including tax and installation.
08-21-2007, 10:01 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by Jacques79,Aug 20 2007, 09:41 PM
Is there any way to fix the rubbery feeling of the shifter in the E36 M3? Do metal shifter bushings and a short-shift kit help?
It'll never be the same as an S, however.