Gotpepsi

When talking to people about German cars many say that they are expensive to maintain, that BMW stands for "big money waster"; however, why do German cars have such a bad reputation when it comes to reliability?

I purchased my Honda s2000 at 88k (I think) now it has 103k and I have no problem trusting the car on a 800+ mile road trip. But when I see a BMW, Audi and Porsche for sale with 80k-100k miles I'm greatly deterred. Its interesting that I stereotype these cars based on what others have said but have no real understanding or experience on what could possibly fail. Since they are pricier than our Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissians shouldn't they last longer, so to say?

kevinS2OOO

Prices don't always reflect on the durability or reliability of design because a lot of those European brands you are paying for the material used, skillfulness of the craftsmen, luxurious design, and of course the brand name.

Look at Maserati/Ferrari for instance, you will know the brand probably produces cars that spend more time in the shop than in the garage or on the road. But there are exceptions, you have Porsche which, I believe is one of the more reliable European automakers.

I might be wrong but I always think European car makers tend to complicate their engine bays or car systems (V8, V12), making it more difficult to work on; thus increasing the labour hours. And then when the car does break down, the parts are usually priced at premium because since you can afford a European car, they know you could probably afford those expensive parts. This is similar to the pricing of aftermarket parts for most European cars.

I am interested in what others have to say too about European cars. Please correct me if my thinking was wrong.

lovegroova

Porsche have a pretty poor reliability record, particularly with regards to IMS/RMS failures. See here for an explanation: http://theimsguardian.com/ims-failures-explained/

Premium brand cars tend to be filled wit overcomplicated electrics, which are the other main cause for failure.

This is a useful index used here in the UK http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

Despite all of that, German cars are perceived as being reliable over here, even though the facts are rather different. I think it is mostly because British cars of the 70s and 80s were terrible and compared to those, German cars were reliable. Import quotas imposed on Japanese cars in that period meant that the superb reliability went a little un-noticed by the majority.

Mercedes had a terrible time during the "Chrysler years" when everything went downhill reliability-wise, and they've had a tough time coming back from that.

mosesbotbol

The main reason Ferrari's are in the shop is from lack of use. Most buy as trophy or 3rd-4th car and Ferrari designs them to be driven every day. Aston won't even resell garage queens when they come in from a trade. It's too risky standing behind a car that wasn't regularly driven.

The more options and complications a car has, the more that can go wrong with it. Look at how the values on a BMW 7 series drop like a bomb. When new, they are the most technologically advanced car, but after a few years, some things pan out better than others. Audi, just break all the time and the parts are expensive on purpose. European just can't compete in the technology behind cars (against the Asian marques) and the consumer has been so technology focused over the last decade +.

I won't buy a German car, but that is for other reasons and another thread, but beyond that reason the British are making the best cars in Europe followed by Volvo. Will always love Italian cars, but the lack selection for regular people kind of put them out of the equation (and I am not putting them at quality first, just looks and driving presence).

machof1racing

European car makers tend to complicate their engine bays or car systems (V8, V12), exactly what kevins2000 said. Agreed.

thielepr

Well, and any small engine too. An Audi 1.8t will amaze you on how bad it's. A co-worker got a 05 325 convertible and after half year of ownership and 4k in repairs he sold it. Another co-working got a ML320 and he was bragging on how reliable it was. It the last six month he towed twice due to the parking brake sensor, which it wasn't $20 bucks. Another co-worker had two minis. She change the first one using the lemon law and the second one she change it after the warranty just expired but she didn't learned the lesson, she got a Jetta

casanova

what could possibly fail?
- terrible roads
-too cold weather

germam cars not desing for that


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bruthaboost

In my super limited experience with German cars, a buddy and me were doing some routine maintenance work for a female coworker's merc. Sure, it's great when it works, but the Germans (at least Mercs) over complicate things. I remember looking at the brake pad wear indicators. Each caliper had a circuit that would trip a dash light at a certain amount of wear. Lots of other manufacturers only use a metal indicator on the pad to scrape the rotor. All that extra stuff on the caliper is just another failure point. You could see this philosophy in the entire car: added extra complexity and potential failure points.

rob-2

They're not as well made as they used to be. Is there a German car made in Germany anymore?

Fact is most Merc/BMW owners lease for the simple fact. They aren't worth owning outside of warranty. The list of what does go wrong on German cars is long, and it does have to do with the complexity. That said the Japanese add many of these features without the rate of failure.

TheDonEffect

Until consumers wise up, it will remain the same. The manufacturers understand that their target consumers look for certain things, one of which isn't long term durability. They also realize that they can hide their faults and that their consumers really can't recgonize quality. People will buy what they are told to buy. They will fall for marketing that the products deliver somewhat on that progress. Ultimate driving machine, well sure they're more fun to drive than a Lexus because Lexus is the benchmark of fun right? So while everyone is trying to make a truly well engineered vehicle, the other manufacturer is just working to deliver on their marketing campaign.
If Cadillac had an engine failure due to poor engine castings because they cut a corner, the public will be all over it, but when Porsche does it, meh. There's also a 20% mental forgiveness for weight for german cars as well.