God bless 'Merica! Muscle cars are growing on me fast.
 

As each day passes I have more interest in a couple muscle cars from Chevy or one from Ford just because they have some power and a manual. Toyota has abandoned it outside of an 86 and a couple tin cans, the Germans are abandoning it, (soon no Audi with a manual in the states, the next BMW 3 series will only have a manual in the 320i crappy model or high buck M cars, Mercedes has not had a manual in the states in a while unless you count delivery vans) Honda has a Type R which is a bit polarizing, you got a GTI, Miata, and spendy Porsches.

So you can spend some high bucks for a Porsche with a stick, you can have a Honda that looks like a transformer with a manual, some low power but fun cars like the 86 or Miata, and some random hot hatches that are fun but with medium power, or sporty economy cars. "But wait!" you say............"the Mericans make some really ridiculous power cars like a Vette, the Camaro, and the Stang, with big hairy nutted V8's!?" The latest Stang Gt with some fancy boxes checked just beat the Lighting Lap time of the Cayman GTS? The Camaro has gotten ridiculously good reviews, and we all know about C7 vettes. They are all not selling well and getting great big discounts. There are plentiful used models on the cheap with a manual easy to find. And they make some fabulous noise when you nail the gas.

I never have liked muscle cars. But as more and more cool cars become automatic only, and these muscle cars are supposed to be a blast to drive and sell at big discounts with V8's and a stick, these things are really becoming attractive to me. Especially deals on the lightly used market. Seen a couple 2016 Camaro SS V8's with manuals and low miles in the low $20k range. God bless America, I guess. Gonna compare some Mustang and Camaro drives next spring with the new Miata.

I need to get a fun daily with a stick, and who knows it might actually be a big old American bruiser. First time I ever considered one. Anybody else in the same boat? The increasingly rapid death of the manual is really getting to me. Thankfully the hot hatch crowd is keeping them on life support. As I understand the take rate on GTI's and Golf R's is still 50% stick. Thank God for some sense of sanity. Give the hot hatch crowd a thumbs up on the way home.

Sorry for the rant. Just complaining aloud.

Haha, I hear ya. I have always owned Hondas or Nissans but have always admired the sound of 5.0 Mustangs roaring by. Maybe they have a bit of a redneck reputation but sometimes rednecks just know what's fun. I mean I don't consider myself to be redneck in the least but I'll be damned if offroading isn't the most fun I've ever had on 4 wheels. So yeah I get where you're coming from and if I could afford it I would have a Camaro SS or Mustang in addition to the S2000.

It's kinda been that way for a while now. You forgot about the m2 btw and 2 series in general. Nonetheless, the pony cars are a real strong proposition unmatched by almost anything coming out of japan and for the price it of Europe.
These cars though won't replace porsches or s2000s in terms of raw feel since they are neither small nor light, but they are very capable and very fun.
I miss my shelby and find myself looking at used s550 gts and 6th gen SS's.

At some point American cars stopped (mostly) being crappy, German cars got too complicated for their own good, and Japanese cars got decidedly boring and less good. Also, we have great Korean cars now.

I'll leave it to all of you to discuss the details, but yeah, in 2018, a Mustang GT is arguably a better car than an M3 at twice the price, and even a "four banger" Mustang is a powerful, fast car.

I will remind you however that Honda still makes the Accord Sport - a manual transmission sedan, albeit fwd and a four cylinder only.

The American muscle cars have generally surpassed all other competition in terms of performance. There is no denying it. To beat a Camaro SS 1LE or Mustang GT PP2 or Vette Grand Sport Z07, in terms of actual performance, you have to spend a LOT more money and usually end up with a much less reliable vehicle.

That said, as others have noted, they are still moderately heavy and you can't hide that. A Mustang GT costs about the same as a Miata RF with performance options and they definitely feel way different. But we know which one is fastest in anything except possibly auto-x.

I've loved the SS 1LE since it came out - a friend of mine has one - and would have no issue owning one. I'd be fine with a Mustang GT as well, with Track Pack/PP1 or PP2. That said, they are not tossable, agile cars. They just have incredible mechanical grip and very good chassis' with big tires and so they have a high performance envelope. That's quite a bit different than, say, an S2000 that doesn't have the same mechanical grip or total performance (acceleration or grip) but is more immediate and tossable. All of the above are fun; they just do it differently.

It's all about what you want in a car. For me, I'm leaning more towards lighter, more fun cars these days, rather than bigger, more powerful (and capable) cars. Something in between, like a Cayman or Boxster, really is the best choice, for me. 300-ish hp, 3000-ish lbs is the sweet spot....

I'd love a cayman, and generally speaking the modern ones are reliable, but no one will say bullet proof. Problem with porsches is that when they do need something, its gonna hurt.

The pony cars these days though arent exactly cheap like they used to be to operate, but they're still cheaper and generally easier to work on than the Porsche. But when you do own one, you realize how many quirky stuff they got, like door glass rattle at highway speeds in the s550, or exhaust valve rattle in the 1les. Nonetheless they're still a.compelling argument against their German coupe competition like the m3 and even the m2. An ss 1le is about as good as it gets, and I'm keeping an eye on them to drop below 30k which imo we should see by the end of next year. And those cars still have gobs of potential... pro charger anyone?

For those looking at Cayman/Boxsters in the future, there are good deals on 987's, and 981's are getting a little cheaper too. In a few years when there are a bunch of 718's that come off lease (and sales were slow so there won't be that many) it is the base models that depreciate the fastest and S or GTS models that hold value. It wont be long before base model 718's are in the low to mid 30 range for garage queens with 20,000 miles on them. I have driven the base car as well as the S. The S I drove had PDK and has been tested at 3.5 to 60 and was seriously fast and will blow your mind for a little four cylinder. But with the said, the base model is no joke. It has 300hp will be sold at far cheaper prices and is a really serious fun car.

Think about that for a second though. We are not that far out from practically new 300hp mid engine Porsches in the mid to low $30k range. And they are fantastic cars, even if they don't have to old flat six exhaust noise. The upkeep is a bit spendy, but you have to pay to play.

used Hellcats are getting quite reasonable on the used car market.
and I really like the Hellcat!
darcy