I drove the Elise today...
08-19-2004, 03:34 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by PoweredByCamry,Aug 19 2004, 02:02 AM
Actually if you re-read his thread what he says is that when he got back in the S2000 it felt slow, as in slower than the Elise.
Peter
Peter
08-19-2004, 03:38 AM
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[QUOTE=kitwetzler,Aug 19 2004, 03:01 AM] I don't mind you disagreeing with my post, i know there are hundreds of lotus afficianados that think I am absolutely mad... and I freely admit that the elise does a lot of things better than the s2000... it just doesn't do them $20,000 better.
08-19-2004, 04:02 AM
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I agree a lot with what you said. I drove the Euro version and was not impressed. It would be a great autocross car and with the Toyota motor I'm sure it will be fun. Aside from what you posted, it was a pain in the ass getting in and out and the soft top is just stupid.
It's to bad that you can't post a review anymore without people attacking you personally.
It's to bad that you can't post a review anymore without people attacking you personally.
08-19-2004, 05:18 AM
#25
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Good review. I don't think I'd have been so blunt esp. on an Elise board. A lot of times when on a test drive it's easy to get stuck on one or two aspects that bug you.
I've driven e46 M3, 911 tt, 911 C4S, Boxster S, and Z06. Not a bad list IMO. The thing is, next to the S2000 they all have weakness. "too big" "too heavy" "sloppy shifter", "too isolated", "too comfortable", "WFT? interior", "seating position" etc...
Now if you focus on the negative, those cars look like dogs. However, for each negative there is a positive. And the S2000 surely has it's negatives as well. No car is perfect, and IMO no car is near perfect. If you want a nice track car it's not a good highway car, if you want a 500 hp beast it's not nimble, if you want a comfortable relaxed car it's not great at back roads.
I think people are not used to manual steering. I'm sure it's a different feeling. I'm sure once you get some wheel time it will feel better maybe "just right"
As for the brakes. I've driven a 911 tt and I was thinking, what's up with the brakes? I'd step on them like I'd do with the S2000 and it's wouldn't stop. It slowed down, but I needed to step harder to get a full stop. The thing is, the 911 tt brakes are great, but the force and modulation needed are different than the S2000, also the 911 tt weighs 700 lbs more and has larger tires and brakes. The whole package adds up to a different braking feel, but not bad just different.
The Elise weighs 800 lbs less than the S2000 , it has recorded some of the shortest stopping distances in mag tests. So I'm not thinking there's anything wrong with the brakes. Might just have to step on them harder.
I've driven e46 M3, 911 tt, 911 C4S, Boxster S, and Z06. Not a bad list IMO. The thing is, next to the S2000 they all have weakness. "too big" "too heavy" "sloppy shifter", "too isolated", "too comfortable", "WFT? interior", "seating position" etc...
Now if you focus on the negative, those cars look like dogs. However, for each negative there is a positive. And the S2000 surely has it's negatives as well. No car is perfect, and IMO no car is near perfect. If you want a nice track car it's not a good highway car, if you want a 500 hp beast it's not nimble, if you want a comfortable relaxed car it's not great at back roads.
I think people are not used to manual steering. I'm sure it's a different feeling. I'm sure once you get some wheel time it will feel better maybe "just right"
As for the brakes. I've driven a 911 tt and I was thinking, what's up with the brakes? I'd step on them like I'd do with the S2000 and it's wouldn't stop. It slowed down, but I needed to step harder to get a full stop. The thing is, the 911 tt brakes are great, but the force and modulation needed are different than the S2000, also the 911 tt weighs 700 lbs more and has larger tires and brakes. The whole package adds up to a different braking feel, but not bad just different.
The Elise weighs 800 lbs less than the S2000 , it has recorded some of the shortest stopping distances in mag tests. So I'm not thinking there's anything wrong with the brakes. Might just have to step on them harder.
08-19-2004, 05:43 AM
#26
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I need to test drive one soon. Here's what I think will be the deal breakers for me:
1) comfort, entry/exit. I'm a big guy 6'3" 210 lbs. The S2000 is almost the limit to what I can live with. I'm not sure if the Elise will be too small or too hard to get out of. It sounds like a chore.
2) Speed.
From Top Gun: "I feel the need, the need for speed".
There are 2 types of speed, 1) speed in a corner or curvy road or track and 2) straight line hold on for dear life speed.
When you said the Elise has tepid low end acceleration, that's like finger nails on a black board for me. I've been there when I'm turning 1000 rpm at 5 mph in 1st gear and a 325i (A Freaking 325i
) is hanging with me. I'm like "this isn't happening, it's all a dream" but it is happening it's not a dream it's a nightmare.
Don't get me wrong it's not a fatal flaw of the S2000 or the Elise, but it is the Achilies Heel.
I have a "fast on a curvy road" car, but I want a fast in a straight line car. (now insert: "get a mustang if you want a fast car" explictives). I'm not saying I only want a straight line car, I want it all straight and curvy. I just wish the Elise had a more potent engine, dare I say like a 2.0L or 2.2L honda engine (?).
Oh well, I can't wait to get a test drive myself. I will however leave with this quote attributed to VW CEO Bernrd Pischetsrieder. I'll paraphrase but I read he owns a lot of cars including:"...the Enzo (which) is the best car in the world, however the Elise is the most fun car to drive on a curvy road..."
That kind of quote is priceless.
1) comfort, entry/exit. I'm a big guy 6'3" 210 lbs. The S2000 is almost the limit to what I can live with. I'm not sure if the Elise will be too small or too hard to get out of. It sounds like a chore.
2) Speed.
From Top Gun: "I feel the need, the need for speed".
There are 2 types of speed, 1) speed in a corner or curvy road or track and 2) straight line hold on for dear life speed.
When you said the Elise has tepid low end acceleration, that's like finger nails on a black board for me. I've been there when I'm turning 1000 rpm at 5 mph in 1st gear and a 325i (A Freaking 325i
) is hanging with me. I'm like "this isn't happening, it's all a dream" but it is happening it's not a dream it's a nightmare. Don't get me wrong it's not a fatal flaw of the S2000 or the Elise, but it is the Achilies Heel.
I have a "fast on a curvy road" car, but I want a fast in a straight line car. (now insert: "get a mustang if you want a fast car" explictives). I'm not saying I only want a straight line car, I want it all straight and curvy. I just wish the Elise had a more potent engine, dare I say like a 2.0L or 2.2L honda engine (?).
Oh well, I can't wait to get a test drive myself. I will however leave with this quote attributed to VW CEO Bernrd Pischetsrieder. I'll paraphrase but I read he owns a lot of cars including:"...the Enzo (which) is the best car in the world, however the Elise is the most fun car to drive on a curvy road..."
That kind of quote is priceless.
08-19-2004, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tidalwdave,Aug 19 2004, 04:38 AM
Where do you get 20k more from? Base Elise is 39,987 (or something in that range), base S2K in my area are still in the low 30k range. If you think you need a lifestyle color, touring package, sport package, and hard top, then you will be close to 20k, but come on, let's not exaggerate too much on that price difference.
The reality is it's just under 8-10k difference.
The reality is it's just under 8-10k difference.
LSS + touring + hardtop + paint (graphite)
$45K + tax and license... ends up pretty darn near $50K. S2000s are about $33K OTD right now. Ok, so difference is more like $17K. Still that's a LOT of money.
08-19-2004, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tidalwdave,Aug 18 2004, 07:57 PM
I'm not sure how you can say the Elise is slow. It's quicker than the S. 
if you read his post again on the other forum, he clearly states the elise is quicker above 4000 rpms.
08-19-2004, 10:45 AM
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Kitwetzler:
"a supercharged sa2000 would blow the elise in the water."
My response: I don't think so chief. Might be a more formidable race but blowing out of the water is quite over zealous. WAIT! You said the S2000 would blow the elise "in" the water. Hey! That's not such a bad thing. I would like to be blown in the water!!!
"a supercharged sa2000 would blow the elise in the water."
My response: I don't think so chief. Might be a more formidable race but blowing out of the water is quite over zealous. WAIT! You said the S2000 would blow the elise "in" the water. Hey! That's not such a bad thing. I would like to be blown in the water!!!