Lets talk about Z4M's...
04-24-2010, 07:20 AM
#102
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Originally Posted by Master Apex,Apr 21 2010, 11:28 PM
Z4M is like S2000, take a real owner to explore its limit but it is more fun to drive for "push hard" driver.
Car & Driver Lightning lap results shows the S2k CR lap time is slower than Cobalt SS. Any S2k CR owners (knows how to explore the S2k CR limit) who tracks their car know they are faster than a Cobalt SS. This proves the point that it takes "guts & experience" to push the S2000
Car & Driver Lightning lap results shows the S2k CR lap time is slower than Cobalt SS. Any S2k CR owners (knows how to explore the S2k CR limit) who tracks their car know they are faster than a Cobalt SS. This proves the point that it takes "guts & experience" to push the S2000
I don't mean this as an indictment of the Z4M or the S2k, as they have many fine qualities, but ultimately as performance cars they are compromised.
04-24-2010, 01:03 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by Christople,Apr 24 2010, 11:05 AM
That's probably why the Miata has always gotten universal praise and the S2000 is a love it or hate it.
04-24-2010, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. WOT,Apr 24 2010, 11:20 AM
As a former S2000 owner, I can finally come to terms with the fact this is an excuse we make to rationalize ill-handling cars. It sounds nice when you're bragging to your buddies, but the bottom line is all things being equal, a car whose performance is accessible is always better than some beast that might throw you off the road depending on what's around that next corner. I'll grant that I'm not a great driver, but the reality is very few of us are, and that doesn't even matter. Even pro drivers perfer a car that works with you rather than against you.
I don't mean this as an indictment of the Z4M or the S2k, as they have many fine qualities, but ultimately as performance cars they are compromised.
I don't mean this as an indictment of the Z4M or the S2k, as they have many fine qualities, but ultimately as performance cars they are compromised.
04-24-2010, 05:08 PM
#107
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Originally Posted by Chris S,Apr 24 2010, 03:19 PM
Yep, a lot of S2000 loyalists can't understand how I could prefer my NC over the S2K, but it's simply easier drive at/near/beyond the limits.
If the S2000 has Porsche-Lotus type steering feel it would be easier to control at the limit.
04-24-2010, 06:19 PM
#108
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I don't think that's it. Cars are generally hard to drive at the limit if it's hard to predict what the back end's doing, which doesn't have much to do with steering feel. Cars whose front ends break away unpredictably are more annoying and slow to drive than hard. 
04-26-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tarheel91,Apr 24 2010, 07:11 PM
Right, that's a TOTALLY legitimate statement to make. That's why none of the Top Gear cast could handle the ZR1 and felt faster in the R8 V10, but the Stig's time around the track in the ZR1 handily beat his time in the R8 V10 despite the track being damp. The fact of the matter is, some cars require more skill to handle than others, and, generally, with higher overall limits comes much lower limits for someone with inadequate skill.
But your point is taken, certainly a great driver can do things with a tough car that mere mortals cannot fathom. I'm reminded of the video that was just posted here of Francois Delecour driving a GT3 RS on a rally stage, it was mesmerizing. With that in mind, I'd say there are 3 types of drivers:
- Heroes
- Those who know they aren't heroes, and
- Those who think they're heroes.
I'm not ashamed to admit which category I'm in. My next sportscar will be a pure driver.