Mazda announces gas compression ignition.
08-08-2017, 11:39 AM
#11
Flyin Miata is the US distributor:
https://www.flyinmiata.com/bbr-stage-1-turbo.html
Edelbrock has since put on a smaller pulley to up the boost a bit and push over 200whp IIRC. I think it's going through emissions testing right now to get CARB certification. 200+whp in a 2200lb car should trap ~105-107mph or so. and CARB legal. That's pretty damn fast for a tiny little car. Way more low-end and mid-range compared to our S2ks too in a 600lb lighter package.
08-08-2017, 01:45 PM
#12
Thread Starter
They were just short on manpower to do the calibration work. The first version put down I think 190-195whp on a dynojet with stock being ~130whp IIRC. Then that turbo kit came out for the ND with the twin-scroll GTX3071R based turbo from BBR; they took a 2015+ WRX turbo made by Honeywell Turbo/Garrett and carved it out for a GTX3071 CHRA from the looks of it. It's putting down ~205whp. All dyno dependent of course.
Flyin Miata is the US distributor:
https://www.flyinmiata.com/bbr-stage-1-turbo.html
Edelbrock has since put on a smaller pulley to up the boost a bit and push over 200whp IIRC. I think it's going through emissions testing right now to get CARB certification. 200+whp in a 2200lb car should trap ~105-107mph or so. and CARB legal. That's pretty damn fast for a tiny little car. Way more low-end and mid-range compared to our S2ks too in a 600lb lighter package.
Flyin Miata is the US distributor:
https://www.flyinmiata.com/bbr-stage-1-turbo.html
Edelbrock has since put on a smaller pulley to up the boost a bit and push over 200whp IIRC. I think it's going through emissions testing right now to get CARB certification. 200+whp in a 2200lb car should trap ~105-107mph or so. and CARB legal. That's pretty damn fast for a tiny little car. Way more low-end and mid-range compared to our S2ks too in a 600lb lighter package.
08-08-2017, 05:12 PM
#14
Thread Starter
I guess if I wanted to throw water on my own thread I would say Mazda wanted to bring radically efficient diesels to the US for the Mazda 6 and other vehicles but it just did not happen. I don't know if this compression ignition is the same vaporware, but I hope it is not.
I really like Mazda. They have a different ethos than the average automaker and that includes fun to drive and purity over just boring appliances. I hope they succeed in whatever they do and that this is another success because of all the consumer brand automakers and as an enthusiast, I admire what they produce over most others.
My father had an RX7 that I really loved, my wife has had two Mazda 3's that were far better than their competition, and my brother had an really nice 6. They make cars that are so different from the crowd think. That is what is so popular with Tesla, but Mazda builds cars that the average person can afford and most buyers love what they plunked down their money for.
If some of the Mazda ethos had been prevalent at Honda over the last 15 years, think what great cars we would have.
I really like Mazda. They have a different ethos than the average automaker and that includes fun to drive and purity over just boring appliances. I hope they succeed in whatever they do and that this is another success because of all the consumer brand automakers and as an enthusiast, I admire what they produce over most others.
My father had an RX7 that I really loved, my wife has had two Mazda 3's that were far better than their competition, and my brother had an really nice 6. They make cars that are so different from the crowd think. That is what is so popular with Tesla, but Mazda builds cars that the average person can afford and most buyers love what they plunked down their money for.
If some of the Mazda ethos had been prevalent at Honda over the last 15 years, think what great cars we would have.
Last edited by vader1; 08-08-2017 at 05:14 PM.
08-08-2017, 06:25 PM
#16
By 2019. http://www.autonews.com/article/20170808/COPY01/308089951/mazda-unveils-plans-for-worlds-first-compression-ignition-gasoline
Why then, would anyone buy a Prius and its super fugly fugliness?
Why then, would anyone buy a Prius and its super fugly fugliness?
I think i shall sue Toyota for bringing to market such an ugly conveyance. And are the people who buy them blind? I don't get it- if i'm spending $30,000, it sure as hell isn't going to look like that horrid.
so to stay on topic- be kind, buy a mazda.
darcy
08-09-2017, 06:05 AM
#17
I love advancements like this. Auto makers over the years have focused on power outputs, which are up huge over the last 40 years while MPG improvements have only come of late. I'd really like to see a better balance. I firmly believe that a small block v8 can be made safer for the enviornment so we can have our cake and eat it to.
Engineering is going to be what supports this. I don't do hybrid, but a diesel or alternative approach to traditional gasoline makes a lot of sense. I saw DI as the first step towards re-thinking. Sort of like going from the carb to injectors.
Love it!
Engineering is going to be what supports this. I don't do hybrid, but a diesel or alternative approach to traditional gasoline makes a lot of sense. I saw DI as the first step towards re-thinking. Sort of like going from the carb to injectors.
Love it!
08-13-2017, 08:36 PM
#18
Can someone who understands this stuff better than I do explain this to me like I'm five years old? :-)
In all seriousness, does anyone know what they've done specifically that has allowed them to use gasoline like diesel fuel?
In all seriousness, does anyone know what they've done specifically that has allowed them to use gasoline like diesel fuel?
08-14-2017, 05:14 AM
#19
Regarding the mechanics of the process, here is what I found;
"It’s not unlike what happens in a diesel engine. In a modern diesel you squirt fuel into compressed air at high temperature. It autoignites. No spark plug, obviously. They call that ‘stratified charge compression ignition’ or SCCI. Squirting the diesel in? That’s the ‘stratified’ bit.
The petrol process is subtly different. The fuel is mixed with the air. (This is the key difference to diesel.) Then it’s compressed and autoignites. They call that ‘homogeneous charge compression ignition’ or HCCI. The ‘homogeneous’ part is: It’s all mixed up, then it burns.
The basic advantages for a petrol engine are: You get to use a higher compression ratio. That allows the fuel-air mixture to expand through a greater range when it burns, delivering fundamentally greater efficiency. Because of the homogeneous mixture and the fact that it’s the compression doing the igniting, the ignition occurs everywhere in the chamber simultaneously - rather than radiating out from a spark plug. And that greatly increases the load on the piston, which is where the useful work that the engine does actually comes from. It also reduces the peak temperature of the process, which slashes the production of oxides of nitrogen - the class of gasses that got Volkswagen into such deep doo-doo. And it doesn’t produce carbon nanoparticles, either. But wait - there’s more: It also speeds up the combustion process."
My take away is it probably mixes the fuel injection with air injection prior to entering the cylinder (no direct injection?) They use a very high compression piston, causing the mixture to spontaneously combust, which is what we are used to calling pre-ignition or knock, but if that autoignition is timed correctly, it produces more force on the top of the piston, producing more torque than a propagating flame from an igniting spark plug. Due to ignition currently all around the cylinder, at the same time, the ignition process is faster, has more force and does not heat up the cylinder as much, producing more torque, lower peak cylinder temperatures and lower emissions.
Parts that I don't understand;
How you increase the pressure (therefore the temp) enough to autoignite, yet still be able to claim "lower peak cylinder temperatures."
The problem with autoignition is the force goes in all directions, including into the cylinder walls, while this produces more force on the top of the pistons, producing more torque, I'd imagine the cylinder walls would take a beating as well.
They also mention that the cars will still be equipped with traditional spark plugs, so it appears that the new tech will be situational, and not the only source of combustion. I imagine the new technology will only be in effect during lighter loads / cruising environments. Then it will switch to conventional ignition using spark plugs under heavy loads.
"It’s not unlike what happens in a diesel engine. In a modern diesel you squirt fuel into compressed air at high temperature. It autoignites. No spark plug, obviously. They call that ‘stratified charge compression ignition’ or SCCI. Squirting the diesel in? That’s the ‘stratified’ bit.
The petrol process is subtly different. The fuel is mixed with the air. (This is the key difference to diesel.) Then it’s compressed and autoignites. They call that ‘homogeneous charge compression ignition’ or HCCI. The ‘homogeneous’ part is: It’s all mixed up, then it burns.
The basic advantages for a petrol engine are: You get to use a higher compression ratio. That allows the fuel-air mixture to expand through a greater range when it burns, delivering fundamentally greater efficiency. Because of the homogeneous mixture and the fact that it’s the compression doing the igniting, the ignition occurs everywhere in the chamber simultaneously - rather than radiating out from a spark plug. And that greatly increases the load on the piston, which is where the useful work that the engine does actually comes from. It also reduces the peak temperature of the process, which slashes the production of oxides of nitrogen - the class of gasses that got Volkswagen into such deep doo-doo. And it doesn’t produce carbon nanoparticles, either. But wait - there’s more: It also speeds up the combustion process."
My take away is it probably mixes the fuel injection with air injection prior to entering the cylinder (no direct injection?) They use a very high compression piston, causing the mixture to spontaneously combust, which is what we are used to calling pre-ignition or knock, but if that autoignition is timed correctly, it produces more force on the top of the piston, producing more torque than a propagating flame from an igniting spark plug. Due to ignition currently all around the cylinder, at the same time, the ignition process is faster, has more force and does not heat up the cylinder as much, producing more torque, lower peak cylinder temperatures and lower emissions.
Parts that I don't understand;
How you increase the pressure (therefore the temp) enough to autoignite, yet still be able to claim "lower peak cylinder temperatures."
The problem with autoignition is the force goes in all directions, including into the cylinder walls, while this produces more force on the top of the pistons, producing more torque, I'd imagine the cylinder walls would take a beating as well.
They also mention that the cars will still be equipped with traditional spark plugs, so it appears that the new tech will be situational, and not the only source of combustion. I imagine the new technology will only be in effect during lighter loads / cruising environments. Then it will switch to conventional ignition using spark plugs under heavy loads.
08-14-2017, 11:31 AM
#20
That all jibes with my understanding of what would be happening in an engine like that. What I'm still confused about is how this is made into a desirable effect rather than a disastrous one. Gasoline engines ignite the gas/air charge under pressure all the time, only we call it "knock" and it blows your engine up. So how is this different, I wonder. Is it "not knock" because of when it happens?