TheDonEffect

I dont think I found one bad review on this car regarding its performance capabilities, most reviewers gush about it. Having driven it, I agree they're special, hides its weight very well. I'd rather have an m2 comp if someone was going to lease one of these cars for me, but for my money I'd happily take the ss 1le and not give it a second thought.

JonBoy

I took a friend for a ride in my Z4 M Coupe and was driving it pretty hard on a back country road with some good corners. He was really impressed with it.

Then I drove his C7 Z51 down the same road (at speed) and he commented, "Man, your car was so much faster than mine through here." I said, "I'm actually 15 kph faster than my car right now." He couldn't believe it. Why? The Z4 M felt more alive, more direct, more visceral. But the facts were, it was slower (by a lot). The C7 Z51 was so much smoother, so much more sophisticated, so much less dramatic, and had so much more capability that it felt slower. It was more quiet, smooth, and drama free - it just handled the corners without any issue - the bumps barely registered and the car didn't feel at all close to the edge.

I think you may be feeling that in your FoRS. Also, you probably know the limits in your FoRS but I guarantee you don't in an SS 1LE that you took for a test drive. I get it that the FoRS is going to probably be more forgiving and be very useful in day-to-day situations but a RWD car takes more finesse and more practice to drive fast. That doesn't mean it's slower, it just means it requires more work and a different approach. If that's your point, okay, but I think you're going to get shouted down if you keep saying "My FoRS is faster than an SS 1LE." Unless it's raining, chances are, with equal drivers, you're wrong. You're not "an equal driver" in an SS 1LE because you don't know the car very well and if you tried to drive it the way you drive your FoRS, you'd find it quite a bit less satisfactory as it wouldn't respond to that type of input the same way.

HawkeyeGeoff

This +1. It is a much more capable car than he was going it credit for. Almost like cheating on track days, really.

rob-2

How many is a many?

You realize people were popping ap1 engines too right? They redesigned a flawed retain valve design in the f22 engine. It also stopped drinking as much oil.

You realize the s2k f20 engine drinks oil like crazy too right?

Yes, and the RS has a full on recall for the head gasket issue.

None of these cars are perfect, not suggesting this for a moment. Just looking for people to be balanced here. If 5-10 in 3,000 report engine failure it might not all be the same issue. Ford is handling the engine replacements well which is the best we can hope for with the matter. Unlike Subaru who works to void your warranty and claim abuse if you drive their cars the way they're designed. Dodge/GM/Ford all allow their cars to do track events without issue. Take a Subi for example to an HPDE, have a failure of any sort - warranty void if they determine it was track use involved.

5.0 engines have been very solid. You need to factor in to that the crowd getting these 30k stangs is likely beating the snot out of them and claiming foul.

Happy hunting for cars guys.

rob-2

SS 1LE is a faster car period, maybe not from a dig but in every way that matters when pushing the limits of a vehicle. I agree.

I also agree skill level has to go up with a RWD platform over AWD because there is less input the computers can make to correct for poor driver. RWD lacks pulling from the front or power vectoring on all 4s to do things like over rotate a side of the car.

QUIKAG

For anyone who says the SS 1LE felt heavy, please make sure you adjust in the settings to put the steering in "Tour" mode. It's the most natural feeling. I drove my old '16 Camaro SS with steering in "tour", suspension (magnetic) in "sport", and exhaust in "track" mode all the time. It was perfect combo for me.

"Track" mode for steering is very heavy and totally ponderous feeling.

TommyDeVito

I think as this stage of driving I know and don't need any help. My car I can put it anywhere I want into a corner, and as you said it's extremely forgiving, that's the nature of the AWD layout in it. The 1 LE is definitely a faster car in the warm and dry, no doubt. I am not disputing that. Lower speed corners, I felt my car handled better, that's about it. The road isn't like the track man. And Quick AG pointed it out, I was in track mode, all the way around. I didn't adjust everything independently. My overall point was it didn't feel "substantially" faster and it felt bloated, and large. It would take a track for that, and lap times. And what would that mean? Real world not much, a few seconds per lap but I don't race professionally so it's essentially pointless. At a track day in a Miata, if you get killed down the straight what do you lose? Nothing. I don't base my driving on the fantasy land of the internet where metrics and ideal conditions are all that matters. And it's warm and dry only on the internet. And let's be clear about one thing here. I am not one who lives in fantasy land. When I drive cars, or talk about them, I'm talking the gamut of driving. On here and elsewhere it's like it's this isolated place called the track in the summer. I have a small group of friends that have owned a whole f load of different automobiles. We all have track time, no newbs or novices in the group. One has an AWD Turbo 911. Another my friend with a ZL1. Where we drive it's a combination of many things, but mostly the corners are 2nd and 3rd gear. Down the straights I get left, in the corners no issues, I can stay on their rear bumpers all day and in the slower speed stuff can be faster. Straight comes, bye. Wet, and we do drive in the wet, I can leave everyone in our group easily sans the 911.

Plenty of time in my and others RWD cars. I don't need anything explained to me. You act like you know things I do not, LMAO. What I was trying to convey was I felt my car was faster in many instances, and specifically the hard S's I put it through, which were 2nd/3rd gear corners close to my house that I know by the back of my hand. I think some are way over-analyzing. I think the 1 LE is definitely a faster car but where? I mean is 100% of your driving on the track? Mine isn't, hardly anyone is, they just don't admit it and live in fantasy land. They'll buy a car for track days then use it 95% on the road. It's a moot point. And I do agree with you that the RS is much more forgiving. My instructors last year preferred it over the 350 because you stick it anywhere in the corner and the all wheel drivetrain and chassis is just much more forgiving. It's a remarkable handling car. Is it a match for a track setup RWD V8 on track, hell no. On the street, in some lower gear bends, oh yeah, real world, certainly

And as I've always talked about on here, and online in general. What car is fastest is mostly a stat game, and it's mostly internet bs. Nobody races for money. You don't race for money or for anything at a track day. So it's really irrelevant. On track I have no doubt the 1 LE is a faster car. As long as it's warm and dry. I felt my car handles better at lower speeds. I never said it will overcome a 100 HP deficit. It won't. But a lot depends on conditions. I drive multi-season, multi-weather conditions. You are acting like I said my car would smoke it, sorry, no. Most of my driving, yes my car is going to be faster in turns because I'm not going to be at 9/10ths on a warm, smooth, track. I would have thought in a group of seasoned drivers who have owned a lot of cars would get that instead of "Some guy on the internet said his RS is faster than a 1 LE! He's a fanboi!!!!!!!!". That was not what I was saying. I drove the f'in Camaro through a set of turns that I know every inch of every bend and it was not any faster, and I felt my car handled better. That's about it. If track time, in my cars or on my my bikes were 90+% of the driving/riding I do, my opinion would be much different. I tend to look at this much differently and honestly. Track days are at a premium due to work/life constraints, cost, and my local track is tight, twisty, no long straight, and a heavy high HP RWD Car is pointless to me. Track capability is definitely a factor but my reality is track performance is merely one slice of a large pie. I felt the 1 LE wasn't really that significant. It "felt" heavy, with poor visilibity, and the acceleration and midrange weren't anything substantial. Sorry it wasn't night and day to what is in my garage. I've stated my preference for tight handling, specifically at lower speeds, and my preference for all weather all season capability. And pertinent of Don's discussion of the ND vs the 1 LE as there are pros and cons to each for overall use. But the comments I've read reflect what I've already said. On the internet that lap time on a track with a long straight is all that matters. And comparisons in ideal conditions on track only get all the clicks and attention. None of those online comparos are done in multiple seasons. I also stated I'm no fan of heavy and large V8 Pony cars. I'd much rather own a Cayman, M2, or maybe this new Supra if they decide to put a manual in it. What Pobst can do with it means f all to me because that's a very small percentage of my driving. I've ridden Laguna Seca multiple times but I don't live there or in slocal. If I lived in LA, and lived close to a track there my opinion would be a lot different.

Exactly. That 90 degree turn you describe, at full throttle, well I didn't exactly do it at full throttle, it was milder but yeah you get it. My car stuck like glue, the LE wheel hopped, and you felt the mass. Heavy and ponderous is a good way to describe it. I do not and never have liked large vehicles. Lap times don't mean a damn thing to me at all. Instead, I drive the vehicles, be honest about use, and try to convey the overall driving experience. The visceral driving experience, to me, is what matters. Everything combined. This is supposed to be fun, and visceral. Lap times really don't even factor in any vehicle decision I have ever made because you don't get paid to do a track day and you aren't racing there. The most you are going to get is a cookie at the lunch break after your meal.

TheDonEffect

For the sake of argument and perhaps finding a middle ground here, the camaro ss 1le is a big car, pretty heavy at 3685lbs, that I think people here are saying hides it weight very well and competently. I'd go as far and say that the magic bmw used to have with their cars gm captures and bettered in the ss 1le.

I say this because the focus rs isnt exactly a lightweight either, it weighs in at 3434lbs. But it hides its weight well using the awd system, etc, but it's also the reason why the fwd civic type r with less power can compete against since it has a 300lb advantage over it.

In any rate, I think Tommy's vote is for the nd in this comparison.

xxyion

The real burning question is....have you made a decision yet?

TheDonEffect

Not really, this thread did help by being a great exercise. I actually found my propensity to spend more on a car diminish throughout this discussion lol. More so because amazingly I had a couple friends run into some repair bills and I thought to myself oh that's why I'm able to take so many trips later this year.

But in the spirit of the question, between these two particular cars, I'd lean ND2, mostly because of the value proposition. Used ones will be in the mid 20s in no time. That said, for the right deal, I could be swayed towards the Camaro, and if this car needed to perform more DD duties, I'd probably lean towards the Camaro with a second set of wheels.

Your question is timely though, with the new C8 release and that whopper of a nugget in that it's going to start under 60k, which really means that it won't necessarily price out typical Corvette buyers, the C7 should be dropping in value even more (and they have already), with alot of them in the 30s already. The question then becomes, C7 or SS 1LE. Another good debate there, and frankly it's going to be a constant debate compared to many cars. SS 1LE vs C7, C6 GS, M3, M4, E90, etc etc etc.

For me, the ND2 just resonates with me in a unique way, mostly because I just love the classic aesthetics. As a source of enjoyment, it resonates with me. The SS 1LE satisfies me more in a competitive way. You forgive alot in this car for the sake of performance bliss- it's technically ugly, hard to see out of, has just strange quirks like a big trunk with a small opening, and it's ugly. It will drink gas and eat up expensive tires. But it's fast, but fast is relative. That fantastic handling comes at the cost of expensive tires, big brakes, magnetic shocks, electronic diff. Frankly, if the ND2 had a better sound, it'd be a homerun. And it doesnt need a v8 to sound good, ever heard a Fiat 500 Abarth? or a MKIV VW R32? Hell, a Subie with UEL headers?

The SS 1LE is the best car to keep up with Joneses on a budget. If you're not keeping up with the Joneses, well it's still a great car that you're not maximizing. So what's the point of that car then?