ND2 vs SS 1LE
07-08-2019, 04:19 AM
#81
Understandable. I've had my share of V8s, probably owned the "best" v8 for a short stint with the shelby, so I am initiated. Thing is, around here, lots of traffic, not alot of wide open space, and fun roads near me are short windy, with a cop or two looking to fill their quota.
Cars like the S or the ND allow you to drive it like a rental, and that's alot of fun.
Its sorta like dating a hot chick that wont let you touch her, but man it's all right there vs dating the cute girl next door that wants to make out. One requires expensive dates, and so much investment only to be in the presence. The camaro ss has so much capability that you can't do anything with until you're in a controlled setting, but it gives you plenty to show off. The ND is down to go through the drive thru and watch some Netflix. It may not draw the envy of your buddies, but when you're alone together you're having more fun.
If I lived in the midwest though, I wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Cars like the S or the ND allow you to drive it like a rental, and that's alot of fun.
Its sorta like dating a hot chick that wont let you touch her, but man it's all right there vs dating the cute girl next door that wants to make out. One requires expensive dates, and so much investment only to be in the presence. The camaro ss has so much capability that you can't do anything with until you're in a controlled setting, but it gives you plenty to show off. The ND is down to go through the drive thru and watch some Netflix. It may not draw the envy of your buddies, but when you're alone together you're having more fun.
If I lived in the midwest though, I wouldn't even be having this discussion.
ive lived in some congested areas and never felt like owning a slow car was required to enjoy it.
07-08-2019, 07:48 AM
#82
Public roads here flat out suck. Areas were zoned at the turn of the 19th century so where there should be an 8 lane expressway you get a 4 lane Avenue. Remember, this is the area that alot of people flat out dont bother with owning a car. Now we chest beating car enthusiasts think that's blasphemy, but it illustrates the driving environment. Some parking garages here, I had to fold the windows of my mustang to drive down the aisle, I've gotten so used to driving small imports that this was foreign to me. Nothing like parking your car in one of these garages and realize your back sticks out far enough that a car barely has space to fit in between, makes for a relaxing dinner when you realize how awful people around here drive.
07-08-2019, 11:50 AM
#83
Yeah the Bay Area has easily some of the worst public roads for a city that seems to have so much money in it. Basically around here, if you want a fun road with almost no other cars, your choice is a mountain road. In which case cars like the BRZ, Miata and S2000 shine the most. The only real choice to enjoy the speed of a V8 is on the freeway however you're essentially limited to after 8pm if you want to experience any power. End of the day. I totally get the draw of a V8, i want one, really badly. A mustang will be in my future i know it.
07-08-2019, 12:26 PM
#84
Yeah the Bay Area has easily some of the worst public roads for a city that seems to have so much money in it. Basically around here, if you want a fun road with almost no other cars, your choice is a mountain road. In which case cars like the BRZ, Miata and S2000 shine the most. The only real choice to enjoy the speed of a V8 is on the freeway however you're essentially limited to after 8pm if you want to experience any power. End of the day. I totally get the draw of a V8, i want one, really badly. A mustang will be in my future i know it.
I've had both, and I loved both, which is why I'm so torn. And then there's the utility aspect that draws me to hot hatches, I mean tossing my bike in the back, take a short drive to napa or stinson with the wife, enjoy some nice roads driving and then being able to go biking. I get why sti's are so popular around here.
07-08-2019, 02:48 PM
#85
And then after 8pm you have to worry about the cops who will write you a ticket for doing 66 in a 65.
I've had both, and I loved both, which is why I'm so torn. And then there's the utility aspect that draws me to hot hatches, I mean tossing my bike in the back, take a short drive to napa or stinson with the wife, enjoy some nice roads driving and then being able to go biking. I get why sti's are so popular around here.
I've had both, and I loved both, which is why I'm so torn. And then there's the utility aspect that draws me to hot hatches, I mean tossing my bike in the back, take a short drive to napa or stinson with the wife, enjoy some nice roads driving and then being able to go biking. I get why sti's are so popular around here.
There are tons of driving roads in the bay area and many that don't take much of a drive to find.
07-08-2019, 03:42 PM
#86
I mean if you're living or working anywhere on the peninsula, I'd totally understand why the Camaro wouldn't make the cut. There having a small car with decent visibility and ground clearance is paramount, in fact the Miata may even be a touch too low/sporting for those roads. Something like a Golf Alltrack is a better solution there..
07-08-2019, 09:59 PM
#87
In the grand scheme of things I drive a mid size sedan all day without the footprint ever being an issue do really the size of the Camaro I can deal with. But the fun starts when the law is broken with that car, and the nd just has a fun character about it.
07-09-2019, 06:55 AM
#88
I saw a Miata RF a few days ago. Nice car, but man it is pretty small rolling down the road especially from the side profile. As mentioned before, they are great cars, but I loved the overall flexibility of my 2016 Camaro SS for the few years I had it. Very comfortable and smooth just cruising around, but floor it and fling it around and it was a blast to drive. You know where I'll vote. 
07-09-2019, 07:18 AM
#89
I could break the law, easily, in a nd, BRZ, etc. Running Radar (V1 and making sure it is updated) and driving/riding out to the twisties keeps me from it. I'm on my bikes during riding season most every weekend in my local twisties but I switched to 4 wheels once our temps drop. They run KA out there so it's easy to pick off.
As you mentioned, the hot hatch. That's been my game for a long time. Turbo (easy to mod), AWD, and hatch. I love the combination. I love the look of them too, too much Brit in me. Rally inspired nature and I like the functionality as well.. But the main thing is the traction. It's a proper 4 season fast car. That's my favorite thing. My sportbikes or previously owned rwd cars a little anemic in anything but the dry and warm as I'd have to slow down and proceed with caution. An AWD performance car is fast in most any weather condition. The speed I can maintain in downpours is jaw dropping. And this class of car, while not light, is a good 500+ lbs lighter than the V8 ponys. My current one can do 375/440 to the wheels reliably if you aren't running it within an inch of its' life every time you drive it. My first STi in 2008 got me hooked on the additional traction. I do wish there were more options in this class however such as a current EVO, a hatch STI or STI in general with a modern powerplant. My acquaintances with Camaros and Mustangs, and one particular individual with a Cayman would say why, why, why? You could get a V8 muscle car blah blah. Then we'd go drive in the rain and take a few corners, even local underpasses, and they would get it quickly.
One thing to factor in are tires. On my AWD Turbo, I run summer and winter tires, have 2 sets of rims. It came with 19" 35 series wheels/tires that were ditched within 1000 miles for 18" 40 series (235's) which are abundant in choice and the price is right. That's one thing about the Camaro SS or the GT PP. Tires are double compared to what I pay and they are staggered. I rotate mine often so I can extract every last mile out of them. Staggered sets ups are just another thing to think about. The rears for the 1SS LE are $$$$ so replacing all 4 is about triple what I pay. Just another factor to consider along with insurance and fuel.
I help many people buy cars. Helped my neighbors out over the last year extensively, as an example. Their interests were all over the place. RWD, AWD, forced induction, N/A. They listened to me when I said drive everything and take your sweet ass time. Nothing is cheap these days so if you can't find a dealer to let you test drive what you want then cross it off the list or find a used example. Drive any and everything remotely in consideration. Search your feelings Luke, and you'll make the right decision if you aren't in a hurry. Similar to things said in this thread about top end, and being able to use it locally, they ended up purchasing a BRZ.
As you mentioned, the hot hatch. That's been my game for a long time. Turbo (easy to mod), AWD, and hatch. I love the combination. I love the look of them too, too much Brit in me. Rally inspired nature and I like the functionality as well.. But the main thing is the traction. It's a proper 4 season fast car. That's my favorite thing. My sportbikes or previously owned rwd cars a little anemic in anything but the dry and warm as I'd have to slow down and proceed with caution. An AWD performance car is fast in most any weather condition. The speed I can maintain in downpours is jaw dropping. And this class of car, while not light, is a good 500+ lbs lighter than the V8 ponys. My current one can do 375/440 to the wheels reliably if you aren't running it within an inch of its' life every time you drive it. My first STi in 2008 got me hooked on the additional traction. I do wish there were more options in this class however such as a current EVO, a hatch STI or STI in general with a modern powerplant. My acquaintances with Camaros and Mustangs, and one particular individual with a Cayman would say why, why, why? You could get a V8 muscle car blah blah. Then we'd go drive in the rain and take a few corners, even local underpasses, and they would get it quickly.
One thing to factor in are tires. On my AWD Turbo, I run summer and winter tires, have 2 sets of rims. It came with 19" 35 series wheels/tires that were ditched within 1000 miles for 18" 40 series (235's) which are abundant in choice and the price is right. That's one thing about the Camaro SS or the GT PP. Tires are double compared to what I pay and they are staggered. I rotate mine often so I can extract every last mile out of them. Staggered sets ups are just another thing to think about. The rears for the 1SS LE are $$$$ so replacing all 4 is about triple what I pay. Just another factor to consider along with insurance and fuel.
I help many people buy cars. Helped my neighbors out over the last year extensively, as an example. Their interests were all over the place. RWD, AWD, forced induction, N/A. They listened to me when I said drive everything and take your sweet ass time. Nothing is cheap these days so if you can't find a dealer to let you test drive what you want then cross it off the list or find a used example. Drive any and everything remotely in consideration. Search your feelings Luke, and you'll make the right decision if you aren't in a hurry. Similar to things said in this thread about top end, and being able to use it locally, they ended up purchasing a BRZ.
07-09-2019, 07:56 AM
#90
I could break the law, easily, in a nd, BRZ, etc. Running Radar (V1 and making sure it is updated) and driving/riding out to the twisties keeps me from it. I'm on my bikes during riding season most every weekend in my local twisties but I switched to 4 wheels once our temps drop. They run KA out there so it's easy to pick off.
As you mentioned, the hot hatch. That's been my game for a long time. Turbo (easy to mod), AWD, and hatch. I love the combination. I love the look of them too, too much Brit in me. Rally inspired nature and I like the functionality as well.. But the main thing is the traction. It's a proper 4 season fast car. That's my favorite thing. My sportbikes or previously owned rwd cars a little anemic in anything but the dry and warm as I'd have to slow down and proceed with caution. An AWD performance car is fast in most any weather condition. The speed I can maintain in downpours is jaw dropping. And this class of car, while not light, is a good 500+ lbs lighter than the V8 ponys. My current one can do 375/440 to the wheels reliably if you aren't running it within an inch of its' life every time you drive it. My first STi in 2008 got me hooked on the additional traction. I do wish there were more options in this class however such as a current EVO, a hatch STI or STI in general with a modern powerplant. My acquaintances with Camaros and Mustangs, and one particular individual with a Cayman would say why, why, why? You could get a V8 muscle car blah blah. Then we'd go drive in the rain and take a few corners, even local underpasses, and they would get it quickly.
One thing to factor in are tires. On my AWD Turbo, I run summer and winter tires, have 2 sets of rims. It came with 19" 35 series wheels/tires that were ditched within 1000 miles for 18" 40 series (235's) which are abundant in choice and the price is right. That's one thing about the Camaro SS or the GT PP. Tires are double compared to what I pay and they are staggered. I rotate mine often so I can extract every last mile out of them. Staggered sets ups are just another thing to think about. The rears for the 1SS LE are $$$$ so replacing all 4 is about triple what I pay. Just another factor to consider along with insurance and fuel.
I help many people buy cars. Helped my neighbors out over the last year extensively, as an example. Their interests were all over the place. RWD, AWD, forced induction, N/A. They listened to me when I said drive everything and take your sweet ass time. Nothing is cheap these days so if you can't find a dealer to let you test drive what you want then cross it off the list or find a used example. Drive any and everything remotely in consideration. Search your feelings Luke, and you'll make the right decision if you aren't in a hurry. Similar to things said in this thread about top end, and being able to use it locally, they ended up purchasing a BRZ.
As you mentioned, the hot hatch. That's been my game for a long time. Turbo (easy to mod), AWD, and hatch. I love the combination. I love the look of them too, too much Brit in me. Rally inspired nature and I like the functionality as well.. But the main thing is the traction. It's a proper 4 season fast car. That's my favorite thing. My sportbikes or previously owned rwd cars a little anemic in anything but the dry and warm as I'd have to slow down and proceed with caution. An AWD performance car is fast in most any weather condition. The speed I can maintain in downpours is jaw dropping. And this class of car, while not light, is a good 500+ lbs lighter than the V8 ponys. My current one can do 375/440 to the wheels reliably if you aren't running it within an inch of its' life every time you drive it. My first STi in 2008 got me hooked on the additional traction. I do wish there were more options in this class however such as a current EVO, a hatch STI or STI in general with a modern powerplant. My acquaintances with Camaros and Mustangs, and one particular individual with a Cayman would say why, why, why? You could get a V8 muscle car blah blah. Then we'd go drive in the rain and take a few corners, even local underpasses, and they would get it quickly.
One thing to factor in are tires. On my AWD Turbo, I run summer and winter tires, have 2 sets of rims. It came with 19" 35 series wheels/tires that were ditched within 1000 miles for 18" 40 series (235's) which are abundant in choice and the price is right. That's one thing about the Camaro SS or the GT PP. Tires are double compared to what I pay and they are staggered. I rotate mine often so I can extract every last mile out of them. Staggered sets ups are just another thing to think about. The rears for the 1SS LE are $$$$ so replacing all 4 is about triple what I pay. Just another factor to consider along with insurance and fuel.
I help many people buy cars. Helped my neighbors out over the last year extensively, as an example. Their interests were all over the place. RWD, AWD, forced induction, N/A. They listened to me when I said drive everything and take your sweet ass time. Nothing is cheap these days so if you can't find a dealer to let you test drive what you want then cross it off the list or find a used example. Drive any and everything remotely in consideration. Search your feelings Luke, and you'll make the right decision if you aren't in a hurry. Similar to things said in this thread about top end, and being able to use it locally, they ended up purchasing a BRZ.
Yeah the hot hatch is a compelling argument as well, and I'd definitely get more seat time if I owned one since I have back doors and seats and a useable trunk. But man do sti's hold their value and they're damn near 40k new.
I owned an frs so I've been there done that, I do regret selling that car, I found like the unicorn silver frs monogram in perfect condition, previous owner was a detail freak and kept all his cars cherry. But that engine just let's you down, but had it been my only car I would've kept it.