Slamnasty

You can't compare 2 brands that aren't sold internationally to 2 brands that ARE sold internationally on a large scale. Who knows how well Lexus and Infiniti would sell if marketed in all the same places as BMW? They might be selling just as well. But that's not predictable at the moment, so stick with American numbers for the sake of this discussion.

Both brands have been doing nothing but increasing sales, marketshare and popularity since their inception. They may not be a BMW or Mercedes yet, but their not exactly budding startups either.

[QUOTE]...My point about Lexus and Ininiti not competing with Cadillac and Lincoln is they make much different cars.

curiouz_G

i cant believe i read all that. and i also cant believe that it turned from a FWD VS RWD to an all out RWD Sedan War.

no_really

sorry, slamnasty, anyway you cut it, rwd wins over fwd. But we can disagree with no harm done.

dlq04

I have an '04 CTS 3.6 liter with 255 hp and today I tested an '07 Nissan Maxima 3.5 liter with 255 hp. The Caddy is RWD. The Max is FWD. Climbing from one into the other and back again it was VERY clear why RWD is the way to go when you get above 250 hp.... or whatever the crossover number is.

Saki GT

Did you get your answer yet? Passenger cars, an particularly mid to economy cars, went fwd for economic reasons, and benefits to traction by having a "pull" force on the car and greater weight over the tires, which helps tame the car and keep it in traction.

Having one set of wheels propel the car and control its direction is not the best set up when you begin pushing the handling limits of a car, so sports cars and high end GT cars kept to the rwd set up or like Audi went with awd. It also offers better weight distribution for cornering, at the expense of some stability.

Now that technology has advanced to the point that stability control can handle the "push" effect of rwd and can keep the rear of a car from pushing past the front, rwd is becoming more popular in "normal" cars because it gives back the benefits of rwd without the drawbacks of no or older stability control.

Mid and economy cars will continue to be fwd because they aren't really powerful, don't need rwd to perform, and stability control costs money. Some higher end cars are moving to rwd, like the 300C, with the trickle down effect to lesser models, and the Acura with SH-AWD. The Ford 500 and Fusion will also offer awd, and this trend will grow as people abandon SUVs for more reasonable cars that offer everything an SUV does minus poorer fuel efficiency and a higher center of gravity.

Super high end cars use adaptive awd because its the best way to put power to the road - power shifts between wheels to maximize effectiveness in different driving conditions. Since its heavier and more complicated than rwd, most race cars stick with rwd.

Christople

this thread is going nowhere

bulldog04

Thank you Saki GT for you insightful and succint answer to the question. The thread got so off track, I was wondering if I would ever get an answer.

dlq04

JonBoy

[QUOTE=no_really,Aug 3 2006, 05:20 PM]just so I know where you are coming from, exactly how old are "old people" or "old folks?"

JonBoy

They have never sold a half million 5-Series in a single year, globally. Try 228,389 in 2005 - see http://motoringfile.com/2006/03/23/bmw-gro...profit-in-2006/ for proof.

Actual sales for last year, just FYI:

BMW (North America Only) - 307,020 total sales, including about 40K from Mini - http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/204975.html

Lexus (North America Only) - 302,895 - http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/205039.html

Infiniti (North America Only) - 136,401 - http://www.nissannews.com/corporate/news/c...104101737.shtml

Total Infiniti + Lexus = 439,296
Total BMW = 307,020

Difference = 132,276 in favor of the Japanese in North America

Not sure where you get your information, but it's dead wrong. Lexus sold nearly as much in North America as BMW did. We live in North America - it's what I consider most relevant to the discussion (perhaps you differ)

From a global standpoint:

BMW - 1,327,992 (including Rolls Royce - insignificant - and Mini (not insignificant, at 200,428 units)) - http://motoringfile.com/2006/03/23/bmw-gro...profit-in-2006/

Lexus - 386,000 - see http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/pdf/2006/..._close0605.pdf , page 6

Infiniti - 148,000 - see http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/P...25fy2005_01.pdf , page 2

So, worldwide, BMW is kicking butt. Domestically, not at all. Them's the facts.