Short Geneva car show report
03-10-2008, 02:18 AM
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Short Geneva car show report
First of all, NO PICS! I'm not that good a photographer, I didn't want to spend +6 hours hauling my huge SLR around my neck, and besides, you'll find plenty of very good, high quality pics on other websites.
What I will provide, is a few impressions on some cars I've been wanting to see in person. This isn't too long, but hey, if you don't mind reading, let's get on with it.
Started with the Mercedes stand, the new SLK looks okish, nothing much has changed apart from the better looking side mirrors (with integrated V form indicator lights) and the funny looking front spoiler. I guess it's an aquired taste, and personally I prefer a normal AMG performance bumper then the non-AMG one. Too bad they didn't have an SLK5 AMG with the new bumper for comparisons sake. The rectangular 'angled' exhaust looks crap tho'.
The SL63 with DCT gearbox was absolutely gorgeous however! Photos always made the new headlights looks kind of bizarre, but once you see this thing in person, it looks like a BEAST! Very VERY agressive, gone are the oval lights of the pre-face lift model. Interior has hardly changed apart from the addition of the SLK's airscarf and of course the new gearbox. But it's that front spoiler and headlights that really made my day. Absolutely gorgeous, I'm actually quite surprised!
BUT, this was NOT the car that surprised me the most (hehe, more on that later).
The SLR convertible was also there, and it looked nice I (I've always like the looks), too bad the soft top leaves these gaps on the sides, doesn't look that flush, but still, I wouldn't say no to this car
I pretty much skipped the BMW stand this year, I'm just not digging their new look and I've sat in all their M cars (and driven most of them) anyway...
Too bad Honda had to hide away their S2000, seems that they're putting this car more and more in the back as time goes by. Last year they still had two of them right smack-bang in the middle of their stand, this time it was a black one (with a huge ass spoiler?!?) up on a balcony in a dark corner... oh well.
I had to go check out the IS-F from Lexus, and you know what? It was one of the biggest disappointments from this years car show. The interior did not feel very luxurious. Plastics felt cheap, the bit of cover in the automatic gearbox selector cubby rattles and moves around, an ugly protruding/cheap looking button marked something like "gear hold" or so on, would move around in it's spot, the engine room was just a bunch of large plastic covers with NOTHING noteworthy to see, the exhaust with the fake "8" vents didn't really make sense to me either.
The nav system looked nice tho', touchscreen and all that. But overall, I just wasn't impressed, felt like a step back for Lexus. I mean, typically the quality of the materials should be good, right? Well, I'm sorry but although I've never been that impressed with Lexus when it comes to the design and quality of materials inside (better then most American cars, but worse then MB, Audi and BMW, just my opinion of course, take it as you want), this time it really did feel worse then usual. Maybe they're trying to keep it down at a reasonable price... who knows.
I saw one Opel GT (Sky) with a V8 Corvette engine tucked away under the hood, that was quite funky It was away on a stand tho', couldn't approach it.
Not much to say about the supercars, I mean, you'll find plenty opinions on them and as most of us here probably won't be buying one soon anyway, I won't say too much about them. The Gallardo 560 looked just like a normal Gallardo, I did get a chance to check out the 430 Scuderia thanks to my invitation to the Ferrari stand (took a few phone pics of the interior and played around with the knobs, paddles etc... oh yeah, the seats are VERY sweet, tuck you in just right), then there were the Spykers, Koenigseggs (full carbon, 1018hp ethanol version or whatever, looked... interesting, with the typical Smart car interior that looks poor IMO), but then I did get a chance to take a one over the Porsche GT2.
Dayumn, those tires are fat, looks pretty close to the Turbo, although front bumper is a little different and then there's that wing on the bag, big it is. Too bad it's so expensive, I really loved driving the 997 Turbo, I bet this one would have been a blast as well. The GT2 however was on a stand, away from prying hands so couldn't take a look inside
I also saw that funny looking gold Mansory SLR. It definitely is a little "too much". The paint is matte, but they've brushed it on so that there is a graduation in paint from carbon fibre to the color, very interesting way to paint it. But wayyyy too bling bling.
Then we saw the GTR, first the typical cutaway car, then another one sitting on hydraulics dancing around with a nurburgring video playing ahead of it, and then...
Well, Nissan had a backroom with a Black Edition GTR, invitation only. After a little negotiation, I got in and MY GOD! This car actually really ****ing impressed me!
Sh1111t, I admit I'm a badge whore, I love the idea of owning a Ferrari, Lamborghini etc... but I most definitely would NOT say no to this car!
The GTR was the car that MOST impressed me at this years car show!
I started asking quite a lot of (technical) questions from the guy showing us around, and as he couldn't answer them, he got hold of Simon, supposedly one of Nissans top marketing brass for the GTR (and an extremely nice guy, very patient, definitely a car guy, worked for AMG as well from what I understoof). He took me through the on-board computer system, showing me some menus and options, explained different things to me about how the car behaves, how to drive it and so on.
And (coming from his mouth), he told me the 480hp is NOT at the Crank, it is AT THE WHEEL! But when I asked him why higher figures then 480hp have been recorded on dynos, he told me that Mizuno-san (I think it was him) was the only person who knows the exact power figures at the crank for the GTR engine.
The GTR (in the European market at least), will be sold at 3 different trim levels.
The Black Edition was the highest trim level, being sold at 114k swiss francs (unfortunately, that's about $110k... everything is more expensive in Europe), 55 of them should be sold every year in Switzerland, only two dealerships are allowed to sell and service the car over here as well. These dealerships must permanently have one test drive car and one showroom car, and they will lend you a 350Z when they service the GTR. However, they will come all the way up to your house, pick up the car on a flatbed and bring it back to you once it has been services (really nice service there!).
They'll have dedicated people just for this car alone, so at least according to Simon and Muller (the dealership guy), those buying this car will get their moneys worth in customer experience.
Then, what about the car itself? Well, it is big, it is VERY imposing, it truly looks evil, the exhausts are huge (the tips, that is... it kind slims into smaller openings further inside the pipe), the front structure has a lot of CF (obvious from the "Carbon Composite" logo inside the engine bay), the service interalles should be 20,000 km's (13k miles?) with a first service checkup at 2000km's.
And the interior is actually damn nice! I had my reservations about this car, I too thought the interior was nothing to shout home about, but the fit and finish is actually really good! Ok, it looks a little blocky, but the leather felt awesome to the touch, the plastics are good soft quality like, they don't feel brittle, the stuff that looks like aluminium painted plastic is supposedly real aluminium, all buttons felt weighted and tough, they flicked in place exactly as they should when you pressed them up/down in or out.
The onboard computer screen quality could be a bit better, it felt like they were using slightly older LCD technology, but I think this must be due to the fact that they're using a touchscreen with one of those filters in place that can cause slight image distortion or "buzz" (if you see what I mean). Several buttons would let you play with this computer and personalization was really funky, all the little graphs etc are way cool
According to Simon, the GTR won't be sold with Nav until september 2009 (in europe at least) as they're waiting for a very good, high quality nav system to come out which will then be fitted on new GTR orders. Speaking of which, the dealerships will begin taking orders on April the 2nd on www.nissangtr.com (or was it April the 4th? anyway...), with a reservation payment of 8000 swiss francs for the Swiss market. The cars themselves will begin coming out in March of next year. All future owners will receive courtecy invitations to track events and driver training while they wait for their car to be built ( wooot! ) as well.
Trunk space is quite large, good flat trunk, I tried sitting in the rear and could easily envisage myself sitting there for a long trip. e.g. while sitting in the rear, I asked my GF to take the seat on the front and she was able to fully extend her legs while I was sitting in the back. I'm not a very tall person, maybe around 180cm (what's that 5'8" ?), but I did find that it would be best to not sit completely upright as my head would then touch the rear window. But sitting down a bit and leaning my ass part forward and shoulder/neck part backward, everything was good.
Seats are also very comfy, they hold you in as they should, maybe not quite as tight as the Scuderia seats, but my GF did mention that she fit in better in the GTR seats as the Scuderia seats were beginning to feel a little tight for her around the hip area (she's quite slim tho', so I dunno what she was on about, haha).
ehhh... what else can I say? They obviously couldn't fire the car up and who knows when I'll test drive one, but seeing as I've been thinking of buying a Ferrari 360 Modena next year, I'm all of a sudden having HUGE reservations on my plans.
I really, REALLY want to have this car as well! I don't really feel like selling my SLK55 AMG either, as I love that car too, but I'm really confused now.
On one hand, the Ferrari is just the most beautiful car ever, and on the second hand my SLK gives me the convertible feel I need, but then there's the GTR which is just downright BEASTLY! Had the quality of the interior materials been poor, with clonking sounds from the doors when you whack them close, or plastics creaing around and there being poor sound insulation, I might have thought differently. And had this car been ugly (and from the first photos, I too thought that "yup, not too hot"), but it actually looks really nice! Both in and out! And it feels that too, it feels solid, very solid, it's also very fast, it has 4 usable seats, and the price is actually darn good as well (might seem high for you US peeps, but this is Europe after all... i.e. I paid slightly more for my AMG then what this GTR costs, and even the Modena would/could cost more then the GTR not counting service and fixes).
Speaking about services, I unfortunately did not find out how much it would cost and what it involves, but Simon was adamant that services costs are not high, that the breaks should last a long time, the onboard computer will not record the number of "launch control" launches that one performs (unlike with the M3 where it supposedly would let you do 10 or so of them after which BMW would renounce your warranty), and the clutch job too should be reasonable (and last a long time... i.e. Porsche length, not Ferrari/Lamborghini length).
Oooh, what a bummer, well, I got a few weeks left to find out if I'll plop down 8k for my car
I also spoke about this car at length with another friend (comes from a rich family, so buying cars is not a problem for him) and this guy, he's had M's, Porsches etc, and he was going absolutely BONKERS about the GTR. He's definitely reserving his, even thinking about going to a dealer and paying for it right now to be one of the first to get his car. That should be interesting
Well, anyway... to sum up Geneva Car Show 2008, there were some familiar faces, some 'facelifted' faces which worked well, some disappointments and one car that really stood out from the crowd, the Nissan GTR.
What I will provide, is a few impressions on some cars I've been wanting to see in person. This isn't too long, but hey, if you don't mind reading, let's get on with it.
Started with the Mercedes stand, the new SLK looks okish, nothing much has changed apart from the better looking side mirrors (with integrated V form indicator lights) and the funny looking front spoiler. I guess it's an aquired taste, and personally I prefer a normal AMG performance bumper then the non-AMG one. Too bad they didn't have an SLK5 AMG with the new bumper for comparisons sake. The rectangular 'angled' exhaust looks crap tho'.
The SL63 with DCT gearbox was absolutely gorgeous however! Photos always made the new headlights looks kind of bizarre, but once you see this thing in person, it looks like a BEAST! Very VERY agressive, gone are the oval lights of the pre-face lift model. Interior has hardly changed apart from the addition of the SLK's airscarf and of course the new gearbox. But it's that front spoiler and headlights that really made my day. Absolutely gorgeous, I'm actually quite surprised!
BUT, this was NOT the car that surprised me the most (hehe, more on that later).
The SLR convertible was also there, and it looked nice I (I've always like the looks), too bad the soft top leaves these gaps on the sides, doesn't look that flush, but still, I wouldn't say no to this car
I pretty much skipped the BMW stand this year, I'm just not digging their new look and I've sat in all their M cars (and driven most of them) anyway...
Too bad Honda had to hide away their S2000, seems that they're putting this car more and more in the back as time goes by. Last year they still had two of them right smack-bang in the middle of their stand, this time it was a black one (with a huge ass spoiler?!?) up on a balcony in a dark corner... oh well.
I had to go check out the IS-F from Lexus, and you know what? It was one of the biggest disappointments from this years car show. The interior did not feel very luxurious. Plastics felt cheap, the bit of cover in the automatic gearbox selector cubby rattles and moves around, an ugly protruding/cheap looking button marked something like "gear hold" or so on, would move around in it's spot, the engine room was just a bunch of large plastic covers with NOTHING noteworthy to see, the exhaust with the fake "8" vents didn't really make sense to me either.
The nav system looked nice tho', touchscreen and all that. But overall, I just wasn't impressed, felt like a step back for Lexus. I mean, typically the quality of the materials should be good, right? Well, I'm sorry but although I've never been that impressed with Lexus when it comes to the design and quality of materials inside (better then most American cars, but worse then MB, Audi and BMW, just my opinion of course, take it as you want), this time it really did feel worse then usual. Maybe they're trying to keep it down at a reasonable price... who knows.
I saw one Opel GT (Sky) with a V8 Corvette engine tucked away under the hood, that was quite funky
It was away on a stand tho', couldn't approach it.Not much to say about the supercars, I mean, you'll find plenty opinions on them and as most of us here probably won't be buying one soon anyway, I won't say too much about them. The Gallardo 560 looked just like a normal Gallardo, I did get a chance to check out the 430 Scuderia thanks to my invitation to the Ferrari stand (took a few phone pics of the interior and played around with the knobs, paddles etc... oh yeah, the seats are VERY sweet, tuck you in just right), then there were the Spykers, Koenigseggs (full carbon, 1018hp ethanol version or whatever, looked... interesting, with the typical Smart car interior that looks poor IMO), but then I did get a chance to take a one over the Porsche GT2.
Dayumn, those tires are fat, looks pretty close to the Turbo, although front bumper is a little different and then there's that wing on the bag, big it is. Too bad it's so expensive, I really loved driving the 997 Turbo, I bet this one would have been a blast as well. The GT2 however was on a stand, away from prying hands so couldn't take a look inside
I also saw that funny looking gold Mansory SLR. It definitely is a little "too much". The paint is matte, but they've brushed it on so that there is a graduation in paint from carbon fibre to the color, very interesting way to paint it. But wayyyy too bling bling.
Then we saw the GTR, first the typical cutaway car, then another one sitting on hydraulics dancing around with a nurburgring video playing ahead of it, and then...
Well, Nissan had a backroom with a Black Edition GTR, invitation only. After a little negotiation, I got in and MY GOD! This car actually really ****ing impressed me!
Sh1111t, I admit I'm a badge whore, I love the idea of owning a Ferrari, Lamborghini etc... but I most definitely would NOT say no to this car!
The GTR was the car that MOST impressed me at this years car show!
I started asking quite a lot of (technical) questions from the guy showing us around, and as he couldn't answer them, he got hold of Simon, supposedly one of Nissans top marketing brass for the GTR (and an extremely nice guy, very patient, definitely a car guy, worked for AMG as well from what I understoof). He took me through the on-board computer system, showing me some menus and options, explained different things to me about how the car behaves, how to drive it and so on.
And (coming from his mouth), he told me the 480hp is NOT at the Crank, it is AT THE WHEEL! But when I asked him why higher figures then 480hp have been recorded on dynos, he told me that Mizuno-san (I think it was him) was the only person who knows the exact power figures at the crank for the GTR engine.
The GTR (in the European market at least), will be sold at 3 different trim levels.
The Black Edition was the highest trim level, being sold at 114k swiss francs (unfortunately, that's about $110k... everything is more expensive in Europe), 55 of them should be sold every year in Switzerland, only two dealerships are allowed to sell and service the car over here as well. These dealerships must permanently have one test drive car and one showroom car, and they will lend you a 350Z when they service the GTR. However, they will come all the way up to your house, pick up the car on a flatbed and bring it back to you once it has been services (really nice service there!).
They'll have dedicated people just for this car alone, so at least according to Simon and Muller (the dealership guy), those buying this car will get their moneys worth in customer experience.
Then, what about the car itself? Well, it is big, it is VERY imposing, it truly looks evil, the exhausts are huge (the tips, that is... it kind slims into smaller openings further inside the pipe), the front structure has a lot of CF (obvious from the "Carbon Composite" logo inside the engine bay), the service interalles should be 20,000 km's (13k miles?) with a first service checkup at 2000km's.
And the interior is actually damn nice! I had my reservations about this car, I too thought the interior was nothing to shout home about, but the fit and finish is actually really good! Ok, it looks a little blocky, but the leather felt awesome to the touch, the plastics are good soft quality like, they don't feel brittle, the stuff that looks like aluminium painted plastic is supposedly real aluminium, all buttons felt weighted and tough, they flicked in place exactly as they should when you pressed them up/down in or out.
The onboard computer screen quality could be a bit better, it felt like they were using slightly older LCD technology, but I think this must be due to the fact that they're using a touchscreen with one of those filters in place that can cause slight image distortion or "buzz" (if you see what I mean). Several buttons would let you play with this computer and personalization was really funky, all the little graphs etc are way cool
According to Simon, the GTR won't be sold with Nav until september 2009 (in europe at least) as they're waiting for a very good, high quality nav system to come out which will then be fitted on new GTR orders. Speaking of which, the dealerships will begin taking orders on April the 2nd on www.nissangtr.com (or was it April the 4th? anyway...), with a reservation payment of 8000 swiss francs for the Swiss market. The cars themselves will begin coming out in March of next year. All future owners will receive courtecy invitations to track events and driver training while they wait for their car to be built ( wooot! ) as well.
Trunk space is quite large, good flat trunk, I tried sitting in the rear and could easily envisage myself sitting there for a long trip. e.g. while sitting in the rear, I asked my GF to take the seat on the front and she was able to fully extend her legs while I was sitting in the back. I'm not a very tall person, maybe around 180cm (what's that 5'8" ?), but I did find that it would be best to not sit completely upright as my head would then touch the rear window. But sitting down a bit and leaning my ass part forward and shoulder/neck part backward, everything was good.
Seats are also very comfy, they hold you in as they should, maybe not quite as tight as the Scuderia seats, but my GF did mention that she fit in better in the GTR seats as the Scuderia seats were beginning to feel a little tight for her around the hip area (she's quite slim tho', so I dunno what she was on about, haha).
ehhh... what else can I say? They obviously couldn't fire the car up and who knows when I'll test drive one, but seeing as I've been thinking of buying a Ferrari 360 Modena next year, I'm all of a sudden having HUGE reservations on my plans.
I really, REALLY want to have this car as well! I don't really feel like selling my SLK55 AMG either, as I love that car too, but I'm really confused now.
On one hand, the Ferrari is just the most beautiful car ever, and on the second hand my SLK gives me the convertible feel I need, but then there's the GTR which is just downright BEASTLY! Had the quality of the interior materials been poor, with clonking sounds from the doors when you whack them close, or plastics creaing around and there being poor sound insulation, I might have thought differently. And had this car been ugly (and from the first photos, I too thought that "yup, not too hot"), but it actually looks really nice! Both in and out! And it feels that too, it feels solid, very solid, it's also very fast, it has 4 usable seats, and the price is actually darn good as well (might seem high for you US peeps, but this is Europe after all... i.e. I paid slightly more for my AMG then what this GTR costs, and even the Modena would/could cost more then the GTR not counting service and fixes).
Speaking about services, I unfortunately did not find out how much it would cost and what it involves, but Simon was adamant that services costs are not high, that the breaks should last a long time, the onboard computer will not record the number of "launch control" launches that one performs (unlike with the M3 where it supposedly would let you do 10 or so of them after which BMW would renounce your warranty), and the clutch job too should be reasonable (and last a long time... i.e. Porsche length, not Ferrari/Lamborghini length).
Oooh, what a bummer, well, I got a few weeks left to find out if I'll plop down 8k for my car
I also spoke about this car at length with another friend (comes from a rich family, so buying cars is not a problem for him) and this guy, he's had M's, Porsches etc, and he was going absolutely BONKERS about the GTR. He's definitely reserving his, even thinking about going to a dealer and paying for it right now to be one of the first to get his car. That should be interesting
Well, anyway... to sum up Geneva Car Show 2008, there were some familiar faces, some 'facelifted' faces which worked well, some disappointments and one car that really stood out from the crowd, the Nissan GTR.
03-10-2008, 03:58 AM
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Well, this ended up a little longer then I anticipated.
They also had the Corvette ZR1 with the plexiglass hood thing. IMO, it looked a little... weird. Not really my thing. I guess the fact that it caused a strange bulge and just seemed unnatural kinda killed it for me, but overall it looked so much just like any other C6 that it wasn't bad at all. Unfortunately, couldn't sit inside, just touched the outside of the car.
They also had the Corvette ZR1 with the plexiglass hood thing. IMO, it looked a little... weird. Not really my thing. I guess the fact that it caused a strange bulge and just seemed unnatural kinda killed it for me, but overall it looked so much just like any other C6 that it wasn't bad at all. Unfortunately, couldn't sit inside, just touched the outside of the car.
03-10-2008, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Shinigami,Mar 10 2008, 07:58 AM
Well, this ended up a little longer then I anticipated.
Thanks for the write-up
03-12-2008, 03:53 PM
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Well, the countdown begins for the GTR Hatorade family to jump in...
Great write up, pictures are not needed, your words are enough. Good luck with the puchase of the GTR and then you really need to post pics.
Great write up, pictures are not needed, your words are enough. Good luck with the puchase of the GTR and then you really need to post pics.
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03-13-2008, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by alexchou,Mar 13 2008, 01:39 AM
where r the pics?!! 
First of all, NO PICS! I'm not that good a photographer, I didn't want to spend +6 hours hauling my huge SLR around my neck, and besides, you'll find plenty of very good, high quality pics on other websites.
Anyway, don't really care what the GTR haters say
I was pretty neutral to it all until I saw the car, it looks real sweet and supposedly hauls ass. I guess I'll find out when I drive it.Nissan also promises some great things, with the car being picked up from your home, being asked to go to track events, nice (well, 350Z isn't bad) courtecy car (Mercedes only gives me a Smart in exchange to my SLK55 AMG which I need to drive to the dealer for the service) and so on... if on top of this, they are able to work on the car correctly (supposed to be the case since they're personally training a techs who will be experts in the car and will take proper care of it) then it sounds pretty darn good to me
At this price point, I "can" also get a Corvette Z06 or a Dodge Viper, IF I need a new car with ~500hp (which as I've mentioned before, is not always the case in Switzerland where +500hp cars tend to start at around $200k new).
03-13-2008, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Diablo99V,Mar 13 2008, 05:51 AM
As a Death God you are very wise and the GTR will be your final choice.
It kind of sucks that everything is so much more expensive in Europe.
It kind of sucks that everything is so much more expensive in Europe.
Well, I'll see... going off for a few short vacations, I've got until April 2 to think about it. Definitely if I wanted a fast car, this is what I'd get.
Switzerland is however one of the cheaper countries in europe when it comes to cars. The GTR in Finland is about $160k or something like that due to taxes.
A few years back the dollar to euro, pound, swiss franc ratio was very different, I still remember when 1 dollar was something like 1.2 or 1.3chf, i.e. the GTR pricing back then would have been pretty much correct when doing the conversion, but it seems that the only way for companies to do their stuff is to sell cheaper in the US in order to beat the domestic market.