rob-2

you're highlighting a wide skill gap.

s2000Junky

Yeah there is no point in discussing the driver here, we are discussing the cars ability/power. Assume the driver is the same.

honda606

Not a perfect test is accurate. Expecting any car with less than 500HP to put up a decent time at VIR is simply unreasonable.

We can call the Miata "slow" all we want but like it or not the ND is simply faster than the S2K pretty much everywhere except on the longest of straights.

http://sololive.scca.com/STR.php

Chris Stack

Thing is, this isn't the old days where it was "go fast in straight line" OR "go fast around corners". There are plenty of cars with engines from mild to wild that are also great at going around turns, things like Corvettes and GT3 Porsches and even Vipers. This whole idea that in the twisties a Miata (or even an S2000) can just run away from the bigger heavier cars just isn't true anymore. Even a base Corvette will likely eat either one for lunch.


Also, I don't know about acceleration tests, but I don't care about autocross results, that just means a car is more suited for autocross. I don't consider that an accurate reflection of real-world performance.

engifineer

Autocross is WAY closer to real world handling performance than any track. On the road you have to make fast, split second moves, avoidance maneuvers, etc, which is much, much closer to type of transitions on an autocross course (Which is why every teen driving school I have helped instruct at uses an autocross course, not a road course, for training). How many times on the highway are you running 150mph, and in one mile know you need to prepare for that big sweeper with the huge bank at the end? However, having to come out of a hard corner, with no room to shift, and suddenly throw the car into a fast transition, is much more akin to things you encounter on the street. So if we are talking about what indicates a car is better for everyday driving/emergency situations, I have to say autox is far better for that. I dont even see a comparison in that regards.

Not saying autocross is better than track driving, as that is purely up to the person doing it. But when you say performance, that does not indicate what type of performance. And so when you say "real world performance" then I have to consider what type of performance fits in "real world" driving.

Now, if you mean an indicator of all around performance, that is difference. Although I would argue that still requires more specifics in terms of what you mean. Drag racing is WAY more of an indicator of acceleration performance. But obviously that is where that ends. Track is great for high speed, long turns and acceleration from a roll, but has a bit less very quick, hard transitions. This is why if a person was going to buy and set up a car for drag racing, track driving and autox, they most times (if they are serious about competing) would have 3 different cars or at least completely different setups. Vettes corner amazing, but feel huge and wide, and are sometimes harder to manage through very tight spaces.

This thread shows that the answer to any performance question relies heavily on the application and the user.

This year at solo nats, going by combined times of both days
National Champ in SS in a GT3 had a combined time of 114.3 sec
The fastest vette in that class ran in the mid 116 sec range
The winner of STS in a 1988 CRX si ran in the 115's (faster than any vette in super street)
The winner of STR in a 2016 Mazda MX5 ran 113.723
The Gt3 in SS would have been 3rd in STR (class full of S2k and Miatas)

So if you look at what we mostly see (being able to negotiate traffic and bad drivers that do unexpected things suddenly), the small nimble cars still shine, even with a 350-400hp deficit. That power really still only applies on big tracks where you can let them run (not "real world" in terms of what we all drive day to day).

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Chris Stack

<br /><br />Yeah, but...once. Rarely do I have to slalom, or make more than one quick turn as an evasive maneuver.

But even the point-and-shoot urban driving, that's where something like a Miata or even my S2000 with its peaky powerband falls flat. My wife's RDX, with its plentiful torque, is way easier to drive in traffic because I can just boot it and it will take off.

s2000Junky

Lets just bring things down to proper reality here and state that the best all around performing and fun sports car in the world is a road course prepped 500whp S2000. Thread/

white98ls

Biggest complaint with my S2000 and biggest reason I hesitate to get another one. My commute involves merging onto the freeway, uphill when the engine is still cold = no VTEC. Downright dangerous, let alone not fun.

ZDan

I've never had any issues with the torque/power of stock S2000 for 99.9% driving on the street. If you arrive at the merge onto a freeway and need more acceleration than what an S2000 is capable of at 4500rpm, you didn't use enough of the ramp to accelerate.

I would have zero qualms about getting another S2000, and for new cars a BRZ is about the only one I would consider for street/daily. It's not that hard to get around with 150hp on the street...

white98ls

Simply not true. When I had the S2k and my old commuting route, on the way to work about 2-3min after leaving home I would be faced with a 270-degree cloverleaf where you then have an extremely short time to merge, because at the end of the clover you have people trying to merge into your same lane to exit, all in little more space than the underpass. Basically one of these - horrible, unsafe road design:

Even if I railed the cloverleaf on the edge of traction, shifting at 4k I could only merge at about 45mph max, which is dicey when the speed limit is 65 and people are going 70-75, all while you're contending with people coming in to exit while you're trying to merge. Power is your ally there, and with 153lb/ft peaking at 7,500, which is 3,500rpm higher than I could safely reach when not fully warm, the S2k was scary. Even if the engine was fully warm, VTEC in 2nd doesn't hit until 40mph, at which point you're almost at the end of the merge lane already. Frustrating in a sports car.

On the way home, I had a ramp that was straight, but short and uphill, and preceded by a right turn from a stoplight. Had a little more space to merge, but still could only hit about 45mph by the end of the merge lane when not revving into VTEC.

To be fair, even my E39 M5 and current M3 can only hit 55 at best in those same situations, but that's a much smaller differential in speed between you and traffic, and provides more options. Especially when combined with the poor visibility with the top up, the S2k was a nightmare when trying to merge, twice a day, every day.