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So sick and tired of power talk...

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So sick and tired of power talk...

 
Old 09-19-2017, 11:31 AM
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Default So sick and tired of power talk...

It's funny. So many "car enthusiasts" are obsessed with horsepower and torque (more, more, more!), yet...

a) They can't even handle that much power on backroads or track. (And most don't go to track anyway.)

and...

b) They're doing less real driving, as electronic this, electronic that, traction control this and stability control that are often intervening to save them from their moderate skills and their cars' obscene power.

I realize pin-your-back-in-the-seat power can be enjoyable, but give me a car with enough, reasonable power to be be a blast, accompanied with a more engaging, mechanical and visceral experience. Guess that's why I'll always own my S2000.

Interested to see if you agree or disagree. Assume we'll have a mixed bunch.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:56 AM
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Go drive a 500hp sports car that out handles the S2k. You'll understand the thrill.
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:45 PM
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Depends on the driver and what they are doing. 90% of drivers, no matter how johnny racer they think they are, cannot properly utilize 500hp on a track regardless of handling (I would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow anyday ... whoever said it was right!). This is the whole mustang at car show thing (And lamb, etc). Guys get a big stiffy over having huge power and have no business driving the car.

On a big track in the right hands, a lot of power and good handling are addictive.

On backroads ... yeah .. not nearly as much as on a track unless you are moron and drive like one.

For autocross ... you are classed closer together power wise, and it matters WAY less than how nimble the car is.

For drag racing ... sure ... big power... drive straight.

So it all depends on the application. It is certainly fun to have a ton of tq to play with. Any real gearhead has a hard time not smiling when pressing the right pedal with 500+ hp to boot. I dont care if it handles well or not. But, it is silly to think that a car is not a blast just because it has less power. And its funny to see guys in big power cars getting raw timed to hell by a guy in an 89 civic si on stock power on an autocross course :P

I am less impressed by big boost power in small engines. Waiting for a year to go from 140hp to 450hp suddenly is actually not that fun to drive for me. To me it is more a dyno queen at that point and not all that fun or useful anymore. A big motor with the right boost is heaven though .. or even a small motor with moderate and more usable boost.

I will have a muscle car in the stable at some point, next to the S2k and who knows what else. I am not one that thinks you cant have fun without big power, or that every car needs big power.
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:59 PM
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I will say that while I love my current E90 M3 (414hp, 295lb/ft, 3,600lbs), in my next car I will pursue a lighter car rather than a faster one. Not saying it's too fast, but it's definitely enough and I'd rather focus on increasing engagement and fun/character than increasing speed from this point.
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:09 PM
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For a daily driver I like having 600hp in a largish package that mostly goes around corners well. Having a lot of HP is nice. It feels safer. Gives you more options. I rarely drive all that fast on the street because it's stupid, but I still like having almost 600 hp, even if it's surrounded by 2 tons, couple it with ceramic brakes and fancy computers and it still drives well. I guess I don't care what people think.
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:45 PM
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Handling is always the excuse for low powered cars. That's why the "cars and coffee" exit videos are so much fun watching those Mustangs handle so well.

-- Chuck
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:14 PM
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Not like you're gonna get very much disagreement posting that POV on a Honda forum -- any Honda forum! .

I'll always remember something my dad said about MGs: "... you could put them into a 4-wheel drift going 20mph. Can't beat that!"

If I ever buy a high-dollar sports car, it'll almost certainly be a Lotus.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:44 PM
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I love the s2000 for the dragon and surrounding roads- I can drive at my limit on good tires and not crash. I derive great enjoyment for 8 hours a day driving those roads burying my foot in the carpet from time to time.

I can't do that with a Hellcat (not mine, but a buddy's)- its great for straight lines, but i can't imagine 8 hours of curves at its limit- foot in the carpet? try, one foot in the grave.

Different tools- for straight lines- more power the better for the drag race set- that's what they love. Like a sledge hammer.
For the curved road set, we use and love a different tool- like a scalpel.
But, how I would love to hustle a Hellcat around a road course- try wrestling that beast!

darcy
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by robhoy View Post
Not like you're gonna get very much disagreement posting that POV on a Honda forum -- any Honda forum! .

I'll always remember something my dad said about MGs: "... you could put them into a 4-wheel drift going 20mph. Can't beat that!"

If I ever buy a high-dollar sports car, it'll almost certainly be a Lotus.
I have taken a mostly stock Elise and a more prepped Elise on Hoosiers for a number of autox runs at test n tunes, and they are amazingly fun. Would be tougher on the road for very long though. And you can look cool getting into or driving a Lotus, but its pretty tough to look cool getting out of one. Especially with the top on lol
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:41 PM
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Nothing stops you from learning to control the power. In the S2k I felt like you to put your foot in it almost at any point in a turn and it just gripped. With the exception of a few autox hair pins. Try that with a motor with enough TQ to shred tires and you're flipped around.

I have no trouble using big power. On the road, on the track, or on some back roads. Big power does get you into 'arrested' speed very quickly and often gets rid of the joy of pulling gears. Another strange side effect is it seems big power cars never really feel like they're going that fast. Even when you're doing 150 mph....
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