subaru developing BRZ turbo
10-24-2012, 01:28 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by NuncoStr8' timestamp='1351092264' post='22105227
I don't think it needs a turbo as much as more displacement.
All of that being said, I'm disappointed with all this movement toward turbos, bmw with the m3/5, all the AMGs, base models, mustang, etc. etc. I still don't buy the "turbos are reliable now" statement. Every turbo track car has cooling issues and is overall more expensive to maintain and run. The f10-m5 went into limp mode during a recent magazine test at the track after 2-3 laps. I'm not a fan.
I want more RPMs. Or, even displacement ala Porsche 968 - 3.0 liter four banger making 250hp - with today's tech/direct injection, that's an easy 300hp.
NA for the track and for reliability. All these demands for epa numbers and maintaining performance. What real world data will soon show the epa with all these turbo vehicles is that everyone is going to hate how anaemic their cars feel when not in spool (which is where the good mpgs are measured) and will constantly mash the pedal to get get into boost, thus killing mpgs.
TL;DR - inevitable, and good move. Would have rather seen more rpms and higher displacement while keeping it NA.
Also, Toyobaru isn't trying to sell track machines. This is a sports car for the masses targeted at the low end of the market. 99% of these machines will never see a track. Do you think the manufacturer cares about racers?
10-24-2012, 01:55 PM
#22
Driven any late model turbo cars lately? Lag is a thing of the past for the most part. And torque is enhanced over a high revving N/A engine anywhere near the same size. Face it, turbos are the most efficient technology currently available to get both power and gas mileage out of small engines with reasonable cost and durability.
Also, Toyobaru isn't trying to sell track machines. This is a sports car for the masses targeted at the low end of the market. 99% of these machines will never see a track. Do you think the manufacturer cares about racers?
Also, Toyobaru isn't trying to sell track machines. This is a sports car for the masses targeted at the low end of the market. 99% of these machines will never see a track. Do you think the manufacturer cares about racers?
Honda and Toyota are still using V6s instead of boosted I4s and they're killing the other vehicles in real-world gas mileage in their class. Can you get better numbers out of a turbo motor? Possibly, if you drive like a wuss and stay out of boost. Problem is, most people don't, which means that real-world driving favors the larger direct-injected V6s.
Durability still isn't proven. The main manufacturers that have run small boosted motors for "normal" passenger cars for years (VW/Audi and Subaru) have only proven that turbos tend to go bad eventually, cooling is always a potential issue and even tuning them can be problematic for all-weather/all-climate driving. Boosted motors have to be stronger, the tuning is more difficult and you have a lot more potential plumbing issues. They're hardly proven in reliability and that means they're hardly proven to be a reasonable cost.
I'll take a normally aspirated motor EVERY TIME on a family-type vehicle. With a sports car, I'm a little more forgiving of potential issues since the car is going to be run fairly hard but I only have to think about the Audi 1.8T motors or even some of the issues with the 2.0T to say "No thanks" to a modern turbo motor in a family-type passenger car that is supposed to last 150K+ miles (preferably 200K+).
Most sports cars are still going with normally aspirated motors. It's the plebeian vehicles that are going with dinky boosted motors.
10-24-2012, 02:23 PM
#23
10-24-2012, 04:56 PM
#24
10-24-2012, 05:09 PM
#25
I properly AM shocked by this statement. All I heard over and over was that Suby and Toyota were jointed, and whatever one company did to one car the other had to do to the other car. I also heard over and over that the new 'STi' version would be a 250bhp N/A 2.0 (which seemed over optimistic) so I figured when it finally did come out, it would be like 230bhp with suspension mods. Which is not something I'd want to trade the s2k on. If Subaru is gonna actually do a turbo model of the BRZ, then Toyota has to do one for the FRS as well, no?
It's not the fact that Subaru is gonna boost the BRZ that I'm shocked by, but Toyota actually making an exciting car is what's shocking to me.
It's not the fact that Subaru is gonna boost the BRZ that I'm shocked by, but Toyota actually making an exciting car is what's shocking to me.
10-24-2012, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NuncoStr8' timestamp='1351092264' post='22105227
I don't think it needs a turbo as much as more displacement.
10-25-2012, 02:03 AM
#28
Awesome, waiting for concrete news.
10-25-2012, 04:02 AM
#29
If this is true, then this is really good news. I will wait for official word (and specs) before I believe anything. I think it would be a good idea for Subaru to make a turbo version. I believe something major should differentiate the frs from the brz. I thought the whole bumper, interior and fender emblem was a feeble attempt. There was also the rumor of the frs coming out as a convertible- I think that is a good idea too. If both were to happen it could really open the market. Have the frs offered in convertible and coupe with the n/a 2.0L and the brz as a turbo coupe.
But honestly I don't see either option making it into production. I think they will ride the current one out for a couple years with the exception of that bs suspension sti version.
A little off topic but did you guys hear: kw just came out with a coilover setup for the brz/frs that has an edfc like accessory that can be adjusted via an iPhone app.
But honestly I don't see either option making it into production. I think they will ride the current one out for a couple years with the exception of that bs suspension sti version.
A little off topic but did you guys hear: kw just came out with a coilover setup for the brz/frs that has an edfc like accessory that can be adjusted via an iPhone app.
