Test drove an Elise...
05-02-2006, 09:48 AM
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Test drove an Elise...
Bonus points for anyone who reads this ENTIRE post.
******Cliff's Notes for Steve C******
+ Like a go-kart for the street (for better or worse)
+ Turns heads (if that's your thing)
+ Steering very direct
- Jungle gym ingress and egress
- Poor value proposition (IMO)
- Jarring suspension on public roads
Conclusion: The Elise is not a real car. It's a toy. If I could afford a $50k toy car, I would buy one tomorrow.
*************************************
So this past weekend I had some time to kill between the Crystal Cove car show and a BBQ, so I ended up at Newport European, and asked about the Lotus Elise. They ended up sending me to the local Lotus dealership, where I proceeded to chat it up with a salesman.
There were a couple '05's left in the showroom, which sticker for $43k, without any packages. Most of the cars were optioned up with about $4-6k worth of package. Everything from:
-Touring (leather, power windows, hardtop)
-Track (suspension work and wheels and tires)
-Hardtop
-Clear bra
-Driving lights
-Sport (wheels and tires)
According to the salesman, he could knock about $6k off an '05, bringing them down closer to $37k... But then all the accessories started to add up. Also, the '05's had a poor color selection, since you're limited to what's on hand, what's left.
The rest were '06's. The '06's sticker for the same as the '05's, ($43k), but there is no discounting on them, they're selling for MSRP, plus whatever package they have on them.
If you were to order one to your specifications (color, package, etc.), it would be likely to arrive in December, as an '07. MSRP for the '07's is yet to be determined. The salesman felt it necessary to remind me that the price did not change from '05 to '06, however that makes me all the more likely to believe that the price won't stay the same for 3 years running.
Apparently I convinced the guy I was serious, because he obliged when I asked for a test drive. Not only that, but he let me and my buddy out in the car, UNSUPERVISED. Yup. I've been on a few test drives in my day, and I have NEVER been allowed out on my own. But the first time it happened was in a Lotus Elise. Pretty cool.
We got an '05.
Climbing into the Elise is an experience unto itself. The seat feels like it's mounted directly to the floor of the car, which is probably no more than 5 inches off the ground. However, you have to climb over the door sill, which is considerably higher, and about 8 inches wide. If the roof is on, the process is something like this:
1. Place right foot onto floor in front of seat
2. Grab steering wheel with right hand, and steady yourself as you sit down into the drivers seat
3. Carefully lift left foot off the ground, and over the door sill, while avoiding the door AND the steering wheel, and slide into foot well
I imagine it would take a LONG time (if ever) to learn how to do this in a time effective manner. Thankfully, I have a bit of Chinese acrobat in my blood, and I am average height and slender build, so I could get in and out without hurting myself. But it did take a long time. If I had this car, watching first-timers struggle to get into the passenger seat would be an enjoyable experience.
Once seated, the car is very comfortable. The aluminum bucket seats are covered with a thin layer of foam and leather (or cloth), and they are rather snug, but comfy. The view out the windshield is impeded by both front fenders, which jut into your field of vision like two big red (in this case) chili peppers. The driver seat and passenger seat are separated at the shoulder bolster by about 2 inches. The body-colored center "tunnel" which houses the shifter, is about 4 inches wide at its widest point, but the seats are actually 2 inches apart. This is a VERY SMALL CAR.
The driver interface with the car was interesting. From left to right, I thought the clutch was too springy, the brake was too spongy, and the gas was too heavy. The non-power steering was exacerbated by a flat bottomed Momo steering wheel with what seemed like a 10 inch diameter. The shifter was tall, and the throws were longer than I expected.
Clutch in, select first gear, and we're off.
*don'tstalldon'tstalldon'tstalldon'tstall*
The suspension on the Elise is surprisingly stiff. We rolled over the track for the parking lot gate. It's probably no more than 1 inch high, yet it shook the car like we hit a curb. Coming from the S2000, ALL the controls felt very foreign. I've read a comment on the S2000 being an easy car to "jump in, and drive fast." The same could NOT be said for the Elise. The shifter was clunky and sloppy. Several times I hit the gate while trying to execute the 3-2 downshift, a move that is effortless in the Honda. Pressing the clutch didn't feel like I was disengaging anything, it felt like I was pressing on a big spring. The brake pedal was very soft, but when it was depressed to the "catch" point, they stopped the car with urgency. The gas pedal was difficult to modulate, requiring too much effort to blip, in my opinion. At speed, the steering was fine. However, slow speed U-turns would give quite a workout.
The car accelerates in a similar manner to our small displacement Hondas. Little pickup before 6000 rpm, then a rush of power. The car I drove was equipped with the sport exhaust however, so every foray into the 6000+ range was accompanied with a guttural roar that could no doubt be heard for miles by law enforcement. Not that this stopped me from pushing my luck. The 8500 RPM rev limiter comes up rather quickly. Perhaps this perception of quickness was enhanced by the tachometer which goes up to "10", but falsely does not indicate a redline at 8500. A little light in the tach lights up green at 6000 RPM when the car is cold (soft rev limiter), and red at 8500 RPM when the car is warm. This light is too small and dim to be considered a real shift light, and ends up being a bit more of a novelty.
A couple shrieks up and down and around the block, and quicker than I'd like, I'm pulling back into the Lotus dealership.
As I park the car, the salesman comes back out to greet us and hear my impressions. I relayed to him my concerns regarding the clumsy pedal feel, and he just about interrupted me. "Funny you should mention that... They changed the pedals for '06." Apparently I wasn't the only one with those complaints. The brake pedal was revised in '06 for better feel, and the gas pedal was changed to drive by wire, for quicker response (and also no need for such a heavy return spring.) He asked me if I'd like to take an '06 out and compare. Yes please.
The silver '06 didn't get as many looks as the red '05. Also, the roof was on in the '06, but to be honest, the targa top didn't really feel like a real convertible, but more like a really large sunroof. I'm undecided on whether or not I would have it on or off the majority of the time. The good news though, is that there was an immediate noticeable difference between the two cars. While the '06 certainly wasn't easy to drive, it felt like something I could eventually get used to, and possibly (possibly) master over time, whereas the '05 felt like a losing battle. A couple more rips up to redline, and a slightly different (read: longer) route, and before I know it, I'm back at the dealership.
I told the salesman about the discernable difference, gave him my card, and asked him to give me a call when he got a Krypton Green model in.
Overall take-away from the experience? I really enjoy the car. A lot. The Elise is a car that is SO hard-core that it made the S2000 feel like a Lexus as I drove away. The S2000's brakes felt worse (in terms of stopping power, not feel). The steering felt loose and uncommunicative in the S2000, and the acceleration wasn't on par. The Elise does everything the S2000 does excellent, and dials them up a couple notches. However, it also takes everything the S2000 does NOT do well, and dials those up as well. The ride in the Elise was jarring. The noise was deafening. The visibility was silly. And the ingress egress dance? We won't even get into that.
Once you're inside and driving an Elise, there's not much to dislike. However, the main difficulty for me is the disconnect between the price (at least $45k... at least) and the car. For $45k, you could get an Audi S4. Realize that with the Lotus, you are not buying the car, you are buying the experience. To sum it up in one single thought: It's a toy car. It's a really expensive toy car. It's not a real car. You can try and think it's a real car, but it's not. The S2000 is the best of both worlds in my opinion: A toy car on the track, but a real car by night. The Lotus cannot pass for a real car. The value proposition is not very attractive. 1.5x the cost of an S2000, but certainly not 1.5x the performance. In fact, for that cost, you're getting a car that is MORE limited than the S2000 in what it can do. While it is possible to have the S2000 as a daily driver (and easy, at that), the Elise would be difficult for all but the MOST HARDCORE drivers to stomach on a day to day basis, and this is coming from someone who considers himself a relatively hardcore driver.
That all being said, if I had the money to afford a toy car without batting an eyelash? I would buy an Elise tomorrow.
******Cliff's Notes for Steve C******
+ Like a go-kart for the street (for better or worse)
+ Turns heads (if that's your thing)
+ Steering very direct
- Jungle gym ingress and egress
- Poor value proposition (IMO)
- Jarring suspension on public roads
Conclusion: The Elise is not a real car. It's a toy. If I could afford a $50k toy car, I would buy one tomorrow.
*************************************
So this past weekend I had some time to kill between the Crystal Cove car show and a BBQ, so I ended up at Newport European, and asked about the Lotus Elise. They ended up sending me to the local Lotus dealership, where I proceeded to chat it up with a salesman.
There were a couple '05's left in the showroom, which sticker for $43k, without any packages. Most of the cars were optioned up with about $4-6k worth of package. Everything from:
-Touring (leather, power windows, hardtop)
-Track (suspension work and wheels and tires)
-Hardtop
-Clear bra
-Driving lights
-Sport (wheels and tires)
According to the salesman, he could knock about $6k off an '05, bringing them down closer to $37k... But then all the accessories started to add up. Also, the '05's had a poor color selection, since you're limited to what's on hand, what's left.
The rest were '06's. The '06's sticker for the same as the '05's, ($43k), but there is no discounting on them, they're selling for MSRP, plus whatever package they have on them.
If you were to order one to your specifications (color, package, etc.), it would be likely to arrive in December, as an '07. MSRP for the '07's is yet to be determined. The salesman felt it necessary to remind me that the price did not change from '05 to '06, however that makes me all the more likely to believe that the price won't stay the same for 3 years running.
Apparently I convinced the guy I was serious, because he obliged when I asked for a test drive. Not only that, but he let me and my buddy out in the car, UNSUPERVISED. Yup. I've been on a few test drives in my day, and I have NEVER been allowed out on my own. But the first time it happened was in a Lotus Elise. Pretty cool.
We got an '05.
Climbing into the Elise is an experience unto itself. The seat feels like it's mounted directly to the floor of the car, which is probably no more than 5 inches off the ground. However, you have to climb over the door sill, which is considerably higher, and about 8 inches wide. If the roof is on, the process is something like this:
1. Place right foot onto floor in front of seat
2. Grab steering wheel with right hand, and steady yourself as you sit down into the drivers seat
3. Carefully lift left foot off the ground, and over the door sill, while avoiding the door AND the steering wheel, and slide into foot well
I imagine it would take a LONG time (if ever) to learn how to do this in a time effective manner. Thankfully, I have a bit of Chinese acrobat in my blood, and I am average height and slender build, so I could get in and out without hurting myself. But it did take a long time. If I had this car, watching first-timers struggle to get into the passenger seat would be an enjoyable experience.
Once seated, the car is very comfortable. The aluminum bucket seats are covered with a thin layer of foam and leather (or cloth), and they are rather snug, but comfy. The view out the windshield is impeded by both front fenders, which jut into your field of vision like two big red (in this case) chili peppers. The driver seat and passenger seat are separated at the shoulder bolster by about 2 inches. The body-colored center "tunnel" which houses the shifter, is about 4 inches wide at its widest point, but the seats are actually 2 inches apart. This is a VERY SMALL CAR.
The driver interface with the car was interesting. From left to right, I thought the clutch was too springy, the brake was too spongy, and the gas was too heavy. The non-power steering was exacerbated by a flat bottomed Momo steering wheel with what seemed like a 10 inch diameter. The shifter was tall, and the throws were longer than I expected.
Clutch in, select first gear, and we're off.
*don'tstalldon'tstalldon'tstalldon'tstall*
The suspension on the Elise is surprisingly stiff. We rolled over the track for the parking lot gate. It's probably no more than 1 inch high, yet it shook the car like we hit a curb. Coming from the S2000, ALL the controls felt very foreign. I've read a comment on the S2000 being an easy car to "jump in, and drive fast." The same could NOT be said for the Elise. The shifter was clunky and sloppy. Several times I hit the gate while trying to execute the 3-2 downshift, a move that is effortless in the Honda. Pressing the clutch didn't feel like I was disengaging anything, it felt like I was pressing on a big spring. The brake pedal was very soft, but when it was depressed to the "catch" point, they stopped the car with urgency. The gas pedal was difficult to modulate, requiring too much effort to blip, in my opinion. At speed, the steering was fine. However, slow speed U-turns would give quite a workout.
The car accelerates in a similar manner to our small displacement Hondas. Little pickup before 6000 rpm, then a rush of power. The car I drove was equipped with the sport exhaust however, so every foray into the 6000+ range was accompanied with a guttural roar that could no doubt be heard for miles by law enforcement. Not that this stopped me from pushing my luck. The 8500 RPM rev limiter comes up rather quickly. Perhaps this perception of quickness was enhanced by the tachometer which goes up to "10", but falsely does not indicate a redline at 8500. A little light in the tach lights up green at 6000 RPM when the car is cold (soft rev limiter), and red at 8500 RPM when the car is warm. This light is too small and dim to be considered a real shift light, and ends up being a bit more of a novelty.
A couple shrieks up and down and around the block, and quicker than I'd like, I'm pulling back into the Lotus dealership.
As I park the car, the salesman comes back out to greet us and hear my impressions. I relayed to him my concerns regarding the clumsy pedal feel, and he just about interrupted me. "Funny you should mention that... They changed the pedals for '06." Apparently I wasn't the only one with those complaints. The brake pedal was revised in '06 for better feel, and the gas pedal was changed to drive by wire, for quicker response (and also no need for such a heavy return spring.) He asked me if I'd like to take an '06 out and compare. Yes please.
The silver '06 didn't get as many looks as the red '05. Also, the roof was on in the '06, but to be honest, the targa top didn't really feel like a real convertible, but more like a really large sunroof. I'm undecided on whether or not I would have it on or off the majority of the time. The good news though, is that there was an immediate noticeable difference between the two cars. While the '06 certainly wasn't easy to drive, it felt like something I could eventually get used to, and possibly (possibly) master over time, whereas the '05 felt like a losing battle. A couple more rips up to redline, and a slightly different (read: longer) route, and before I know it, I'm back at the dealership.
I told the salesman about the discernable difference, gave him my card, and asked him to give me a call when he got a Krypton Green model in.
Overall take-away from the experience? I really enjoy the car. A lot. The Elise is a car that is SO hard-core that it made the S2000 feel like a Lexus as I drove away. The S2000's brakes felt worse (in terms of stopping power, not feel). The steering felt loose and uncommunicative in the S2000, and the acceleration wasn't on par. The Elise does everything the S2000 does excellent, and dials them up a couple notches. However, it also takes everything the S2000 does NOT do well, and dials those up as well. The ride in the Elise was jarring. The noise was deafening. The visibility was silly. And the ingress egress dance? We won't even get into that.
Once you're inside and driving an Elise, there's not much to dislike. However, the main difficulty for me is the disconnect between the price (at least $45k... at least) and the car. For $45k, you could get an Audi S4. Realize that with the Lotus, you are not buying the car, you are buying the experience. To sum it up in one single thought: It's a toy car. It's a really expensive toy car. It's not a real car. You can try and think it's a real car, but it's not. The S2000 is the best of both worlds in my opinion: A toy car on the track, but a real car by night. The Lotus cannot pass for a real car. The value proposition is not very attractive. 1.5x the cost of an S2000, but certainly not 1.5x the performance. In fact, for that cost, you're getting a car that is MORE limited than the S2000 in what it can do. While it is possible to have the S2000 as a daily driver (and easy, at that), the Elise would be difficult for all but the MOST HARDCORE drivers to stomach on a day to day basis, and this is coming from someone who considers himself a relatively hardcore driver.
That all being said, if I had the money to afford a toy car without batting an eyelash? I would buy an Elise tomorrow.
05-02-2006, 10:00 AM
#2
nice... i saw a 06 yesterday. looked great. ive never driven one so i cant relate to anything else... nice write up tho! but i do know what you mean.. i went in our local dealership and sat in one... and when i got back in my s2k it felt like a lexus lol...
05-02-2006, 10:03 AM
#3
Registered User
Good writeup. I haven't driven one, but I can imagine all the things you say are true. They just seem to be a little too hardcore to be a dedicated street car, but on the track I bet it's a blast.
05-02-2006, 10:18 AM
#5
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oh they are so hot...
I've said this like 4 times on this site. My S is getting traded for an elise.
I have a buddy in town who's putting a boosted K20A in his elise!!! He'll be dead the day after that project is finished.
I've said this like 4 times on this site. My S is getting traded for an elise.
I have a buddy in town who's putting a boosted K20A in his elise!!! He'll be dead the day after that project is finished.
05-02-2006, 10:20 AM
#6
Registered User
drove one....
1. rock-fvcking-hard suspension...kidney insurance should be a standard feature
2. incredible chassis dynamics
3. super balanced
4. phen. turn-in....
5. incredible brakes
6. lousy ergo.
7. incredibly low on power....chassis seems like it can handle twice the power
8. rock-fvcking-hard suspension...kidney insurance should be a standard feature
no way, no how, could i drive this everyday...and my daily is a coilover equipped S2000 with the CO's set pretty stiff.
1. rock-fvcking-hard suspension...kidney insurance should be a standard feature
2. incredible chassis dynamics
3. super balanced
4. phen. turn-in....
5. incredible brakes
6. lousy ergo.
7. incredibly low on power....chassis seems like it can handle twice the power
8. rock-fvcking-hard suspension...kidney insurance should be a standard feature
no way, no how, could i drive this everyday...and my daily is a coilover equipped S2000 with the CO's set pretty stiff.
I wouldn't mind having one for weekends... 
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05-02-2006, 11:00 AM
#9
Registered User
Nice write up. I thought I had longs posts (LOL). I have only read 1/3 of your review so far but it's well done.
I think the Elise is a nice car. However I'm 40 years old and not getting any younger as well as 6-2 208 lbs and not getting any thinner, so I'm wondering if I'd fit but I'm sure getting in and out would be very hard..
I'd like to drive one, but don't imagine I'd consider buying. My S2000 (used) worth $19K so to 'trade up' to an Elise at $40K + $2K (tax) that's $23K + interest. In other words (new) it's the same price as buying a GTI and keep the S2000.
My point is, for me the S2000 is a toy, but I still use it as 60% DD. The Elise would be harder to use as a DD.
I love
light-weight cars. Some people say the S2000 is too heavy. The lighter the better. But for safety (IMO) the heavier the better. What with all the 5000 lb SUVs and all the 4200+ lb hemi wagons on the road. I mean the Elise may be very safe for a small car. But I'd be scared to drive it on the HW.
So spending $23K (plus my S2000) for a trade up car that will be driven less than the S2000 doesn't seem to be an idea for me. I'd rather get a better DD and keep the S2000 or a DD friendly sports car like a Boxster or Vette for example that aren't far more than an Elise.
I think the Elise is a nice car. However I'm 40 years old and not getting any younger as well as 6-2 208 lbs and not getting any thinner, so I'm wondering if I'd fit but I'm sure getting in and out would be very hard..
I'd like to drive one, but don't imagine I'd consider buying. My S2000 (used) worth $19K so to 'trade up' to an Elise at $40K + $2K (tax) that's $23K + interest. In other words (new) it's the same price as buying a GTI and keep the S2000.
My point is, for me the S2000 is a toy, but I still use it as 60% DD. The Elise would be harder to use as a DD.
I love
light-weight cars. Some people say the S2000 is too heavy. The lighter the better. But for safety (IMO) the heavier the better. What with all the 5000 lb SUVs and all the 4200+ lb hemi wagons on the road. I mean the Elise may be very safe for a small car. But I'd be scared to drive it on the HW.So spending $23K (plus my S2000) for a trade up car that will be driven less than the S2000 doesn't seem to be an idea for me. I'd rather get a better DD and keep the S2000 or a DD friendly sports car like a Boxster or Vette for example that aren't far more than an Elise.
05-02-2006, 11:12 AM
#10
Registered User
thumb-up for Lotus for bringing us the Elise. However I'm not sure how well it will do in the land of 400-hp cars galore. Also it doesn't seem to be selling very well. COuld you imagine BMW haveing 7-8 M3s on the lot at discounts while still bringing in more of the next years production run? This has the Chrysler Crossfire fiasco written all over it. I can see 07s coming out this December with 05s still available. Heck Acura is still pushing the 05 NSXs.
Also (IMO) for $40K+ it should not have an engine from a Celica (humph) I think the Exige at least in Europe is getting a 2.0L turbo (but not here) that seems backwards to me. I mean wait a minute and the 475+hp Mustang GT500 will be around $39K not to mention C6 vettes selling for invioce (not much over $40K).
You think the average buyer will even look at an Elise over a C6? No. so it's the die hard light weight car freak which are few and far between.
Also (IMO) for $40K+ it should not have an engine from a Celica (humph) I think the Exige at least in Europe is getting a 2.0L turbo (but not here) that seems backwards to me. I mean wait a minute and the 475+hp Mustang GT500 will be around $39K not to mention C6 vettes selling for invioce (not much over $40K).
You think the average buyer will even look at an Elise over a C6? No. so it's the die hard light weight car freak which are few and far between.