Check Engine Light Article
01-17-2012, 09:25 AM
#1
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Check Engine Light Article
Good article on Jalopnik right now regarding teh check engine light and the stupidity of the logic behind it.
http://jalopnik.com/5875751/why-the-...must-be-banned
http://jalopnik.com/5875751/why-the-...must-be-banned
Why The ‘Check Engine’ Light Must Be Banned
It's pretty easy to dismiss the "check engine" light as just stupid, because, well, it is. I suppose if you thought that the cause of smoke coming from under your hood had something to do with the floor mats, then, sure, the "check engine" light is handy, but beyond that, it's useless. But that's not the real problem. The real problem is that the "check engine" light is a tool for the propagation of consumer ignorance about their cars. Which is why it needs to die. Now.
If it sounds like I'm making a big deal out of this, it's because I am. The continued use of a generic, uninformative "check engine" light in cars keeps car owners in the dark about the condition of their vehicle, and ensures they stay dependent and subordinate to car dealers and mechanics. The frustrating thing is it doesn't have to be that way.
Let's look at exactly what the "check engine" light does in a car, and how it works. To understand it, first we need to understand what On Board Diagnostics (OBD) are — I know for many Jalops this is review, but bear with me.
Every car sold today has an on-board computer system that monitors many, many sensors and conditions in a car's drivetrain, and reports back when there is an error. This has its roots, of all places, in the 1969 Volkswagen Type III, one of the first cars with electronic fuel injection. The "electronic" part of that meant that there was a crude computer brain that managed the system, and could scan for error conditions. Other manufacturers soon had their own systems, and by 1996 an actual, standardized system, called OBD-II, was developed and mandated by law for inclusion in all cars sold in the USA.
OBD-II is actually a terrific system. A global standard for helping to diagnose car issues, with standard connectors and error codes? What's not to like?
What's not to like is that when something goes wrong, all the average motorist sees is that little drawing of an engine bisected by a lightning bolt. And all that tells them is basically nothing. The "check engine" light is the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) of the OBD-II system, and illuminates whenever a fault is detected. To see exactly what sort of fault takes a "special scanner" that plugs into the OBD-II connector. These scanners are almost always owned by mechanics or dealers. Independent people can buy scanners as well, or cables to connect laptops, smart phones, etc., but people who will do that are not the ones who need to worry about the check engine lights. My mom, for example, is never going to be able to connect her laptop to the OBD-II connector somewhere under the dash in her Passat; it's hard enough explaining to her how to connect a printer to her Mac. If her Passat just told her what codes were being thrown, she would at least have an idea about the condition of her car.
But better yet — the state of things now is that your car actually could do more than just throw an error code at consumers. It contains an advanced system to diagnose itself, but the actual information from that diagnosis is not available to the car's owner; the average owner must pay a dealer or mechanic to provide him or her with the codes, and what those codes mean. This is absurd. Early on, when in-dash displays were rare, one could understand why cars didn't just display what codes were being thrown (though I think a little in-dash receipt-type printer would have been cool).
"We need a federal mandate that bans the generic 'check engine' light in new cars."
But today's dash displays capable of displaying text, or at a minimum numerical codes, have been commonplace in cars for at least a decade. Now, pretty much every new car has some sort of alphanumeric display that could show both OBD codes and a short English description, but no manufacturer does this. I've heard of some cars over the years that employed weird, Nintendo-cheat-code-like procedures to display codes (I think Neons had something with turning the car on and off rapidly in succesion) but nobody does this by default. And they should.
There's no good reason not to. By not letting the car's owner know what's going on in the engine, a regular driver, one who may not be particularly interested in cars, is entirely beholden to a paid professional to get hidden information from a machine they own. That goes against the great Owner's Manifesto and puts the owner in a very vulnerable position if a mechanic or dealer was dishonest. I think — nay, I hope — most are honest, but without good information on both sides, how can a given owner know? And why should they not know?
Or what about this: if your resources are tight, and you rely on your car to work, and the "check engine" light comes on, you'd have no way of knowing if it's indicating a massive repair or a minor sensor issue. You'd have to guess, either ignoring it and hoping it's nothing, or taking it to a shop and hoping you'll be able to pay for whatever the repair turns out to be, a repair performed by a for-profit enterprise based on information you as an owner have never seen. Making valuable information about a person's own property inaccessible only enables uninformed judgement and the possibility of fraud.
Basically, the generic "check engine" light makes it easier for dishonest mechanics to take advantage of unknowing customers. Considering other car features that are federally-mandated — like tire pressure sensors and airbag warning lights — wouldn't adding one to actually help the consumer make sense? It may be the only type of federal-required feature that makes sense.
Which is why we need a federal mandate that bans the generic "check engine" light in new cars and instead requires, on dash, OBD-II codes and a basic description. The only rational reasons it hasn't happened yet range from a best-case scenario of simple manufacturer desire to build as cheaply as possible, to an actual deliberate campaign of forced ignorance in order to keep dealer network profit streams. Neither of those reasons — or any in between them — are valid or acceptable.
Our cars need to tell us exactly what they're thinking, even if we have to yell at NHTSA to make a rule to make sure the manufacturers do it. Do I have to stand outside of the grocery store getting signatures to make that happen? Maybe. But it'll be worth it.
Do it for my mother — and yours.
It's pretty easy to dismiss the "check engine" light as just stupid, because, well, it is. I suppose if you thought that the cause of smoke coming from under your hood had something to do with the floor mats, then, sure, the "check engine" light is handy, but beyond that, it's useless. But that's not the real problem. The real problem is that the "check engine" light is a tool for the propagation of consumer ignorance about their cars. Which is why it needs to die. Now.
If it sounds like I'm making a big deal out of this, it's because I am. The continued use of a generic, uninformative "check engine" light in cars keeps car owners in the dark about the condition of their vehicle, and ensures they stay dependent and subordinate to car dealers and mechanics. The frustrating thing is it doesn't have to be that way.
Let's look at exactly what the "check engine" light does in a car, and how it works. To understand it, first we need to understand what On Board Diagnostics (OBD) are — I know for many Jalops this is review, but bear with me.
Every car sold today has an on-board computer system that monitors many, many sensors and conditions in a car's drivetrain, and reports back when there is an error. This has its roots, of all places, in the 1969 Volkswagen Type III, one of the first cars with electronic fuel injection. The "electronic" part of that meant that there was a crude computer brain that managed the system, and could scan for error conditions. Other manufacturers soon had their own systems, and by 1996 an actual, standardized system, called OBD-II, was developed and mandated by law for inclusion in all cars sold in the USA.
OBD-II is actually a terrific system. A global standard for helping to diagnose car issues, with standard connectors and error codes? What's not to like?
What's not to like is that when something goes wrong, all the average motorist sees is that little drawing of an engine bisected by a lightning bolt. And all that tells them is basically nothing. The "check engine" light is the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) of the OBD-II system, and illuminates whenever a fault is detected. To see exactly what sort of fault takes a "special scanner" that plugs into the OBD-II connector. These scanners are almost always owned by mechanics or dealers. Independent people can buy scanners as well, or cables to connect laptops, smart phones, etc., but people who will do that are not the ones who need to worry about the check engine lights. My mom, for example, is never going to be able to connect her laptop to the OBD-II connector somewhere under the dash in her Passat; it's hard enough explaining to her how to connect a printer to her Mac. If her Passat just told her what codes were being thrown, she would at least have an idea about the condition of her car.
But better yet — the state of things now is that your car actually could do more than just throw an error code at consumers. It contains an advanced system to diagnose itself, but the actual information from that diagnosis is not available to the car's owner; the average owner must pay a dealer or mechanic to provide him or her with the codes, and what those codes mean. This is absurd. Early on, when in-dash displays were rare, one could understand why cars didn't just display what codes were being thrown (though I think a little in-dash receipt-type printer would have been cool).
"We need a federal mandate that bans the generic 'check engine' light in new cars."
But today's dash displays capable of displaying text, or at a minimum numerical codes, have been commonplace in cars for at least a decade. Now, pretty much every new car has some sort of alphanumeric display that could show both OBD codes and a short English description, but no manufacturer does this. I've heard of some cars over the years that employed weird, Nintendo-cheat-code-like procedures to display codes (I think Neons had something with turning the car on and off rapidly in succesion) but nobody does this by default. And they should.
There's no good reason not to. By not letting the car's owner know what's going on in the engine, a regular driver, one who may not be particularly interested in cars, is entirely beholden to a paid professional to get hidden information from a machine they own. That goes against the great Owner's Manifesto and puts the owner in a very vulnerable position if a mechanic or dealer was dishonest. I think — nay, I hope — most are honest, but without good information on both sides, how can a given owner know? And why should they not know?
Or what about this: if your resources are tight, and you rely on your car to work, and the "check engine" light comes on, you'd have no way of knowing if it's indicating a massive repair or a minor sensor issue. You'd have to guess, either ignoring it and hoping it's nothing, or taking it to a shop and hoping you'll be able to pay for whatever the repair turns out to be, a repair performed by a for-profit enterprise based on information you as an owner have never seen. Making valuable information about a person's own property inaccessible only enables uninformed judgement and the possibility of fraud.
Basically, the generic "check engine" light makes it easier for dishonest mechanics to take advantage of unknowing customers. Considering other car features that are federally-mandated — like tire pressure sensors and airbag warning lights — wouldn't adding one to actually help the consumer make sense? It may be the only type of federal-required feature that makes sense.
Which is why we need a federal mandate that bans the generic "check engine" light in new cars and instead requires, on dash, OBD-II codes and a basic description. The only rational reasons it hasn't happened yet range from a best-case scenario of simple manufacturer desire to build as cheaply as possible, to an actual deliberate campaign of forced ignorance in order to keep dealer network profit streams. Neither of those reasons — or any in between them — are valid or acceptable.
Our cars need to tell us exactly what they're thinking, even if we have to yell at NHTSA to make a rule to make sure the manufacturers do it. Do I have to stand outside of the grocery store getting signatures to make that happen? Maybe. But it'll be worth it.
Do it for my mother — and yours.
01-17-2012, 09:33 AM
#2
I sure don't agree with the article... 90% of the people driving do not need detailed diagnostics, just need the indication there was a fault detected... the way it works today. We don't need the expense and confusion of displaying detailed codes when it is easy for those that need the details to get them and much of the time it takes at least a little expertise to resolve the issue.
01-17-2012, 09:37 AM
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Kinda dumb piece, IMHO. If "a regular driver, one who may not be particularly interested in cars," can't be bothered to run over to an auto parts store for a free scanner reading, what difference does it make if their dash shows them a code or a light telling them to see a shop to get the code read? If they aren't "particularly interested in cars" why would they be particularly interested in fixing one or even knowing what that code meant?
And those error codes do not tell the whole story. Just because you have a particular code doesn't mean it's a good use of your time and money to change your O2 sensors. Quite often that's just a symptom of a problem that doesn't have a unique code or even a sensor. The reason you take your car to a shop is because they have the equipment, knowledge, and experience to accurately diagnose and repair the problem.
On top of that, most cars will give you the codes via the MIL or display. If all you need is the code, you only need your ignition key.
Computers have been giving users error codes since the beginning. Has that ever helped "a regular user" fix a problem with software or hardware failures?
And those error codes do not tell the whole story. Just because you have a particular code doesn't mean it's a good use of your time and money to change your O2 sensors. Quite often that's just a symptom of a problem that doesn't have a unique code or even a sensor. The reason you take your car to a shop is because they have the equipment, knowledge, and experience to accurately diagnose and repair the problem.
On top of that, most cars will give you the codes via the MIL or display. If all you need is the code, you only need your ignition key.
Computers have been giving users error codes since the beginning. Has that ever helped "a regular user" fix a problem with software or hardware failures?
01-17-2012, 09:57 AM
#5
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I partly agree with the article. I think it should have been directed to the tire pressure light. Those things are completely worthless and are wrong more often than they are right. I thinkt he CEL is helpful in that it doesn;'t confuse people but does it really need to come on because the gas cap isn't on tight enough? The vast majority of people just want to be passengers in their cars and don't want to deal with any issues or the hassle of maintence and it drives me nuts. For most your car is the second biggest material investment you make and they treat them like crap. Then they complain about getting ripped off at the dealer or mechanic however they have no idea if they were or not becuase they have no knowledge of the car. Anyways people do need to wake up and actually pay attention to their car but completely getting rid of the CEL isn't the answer either.
01-17-2012, 10:24 AM
#6
Registered User
Easy fix, just have a small screen you can push a button and get a code from....then look at your owners manual which should have these codes in it on a page in the back. with this standardized the mystery will be revealed and anyone can make an informed choice as to what to do. some cars say now: fluid low, air pressure not right, add coolant, add oil etc...
01-17-2012, 10:34 AM
#7
Kinda dumb piece, IMHO. If "a regular driver, one who may not be particularly interested in cars," can't be bothered to run over to an auto parts store for a free scanner reading, what difference does it make if their dash shows them a code or a light telling them to see a shop to get the code read? If they aren't "particularly interested in cars" why would they be particularly interested in fixing one or even knowing what that code meant?
And those error codes do not tell the whole story. Just because you have a particular code doesn't mean it's a good use of your time and money to change your O2 sensors. Quite often that's just a symptom of a problem that doesn't have a unique code or even a sensor. The reason you take your car to a shop is because they have the equipment, knowledge, and experience to accurately diagnose and repair the problem.
On top of that, most cars will give you the codes via the MIL or display. If all you need is the code, you only need your ignition key.
Computers have been giving users error codes since the beginning. Has that ever helped "a regular user" fix a problem with software or hardware failures?
And those error codes do not tell the whole story. Just because you have a particular code doesn't mean it's a good use of your time and money to change your O2 sensors. Quite often that's just a symptom of a problem that doesn't have a unique code or even a sensor. The reason you take your car to a shop is because they have the equipment, knowledge, and experience to accurately diagnose and repair the problem.
On top of that, most cars will give you the codes via the MIL or display. If all you need is the code, you only need your ignition key.
Computers have been giving users error codes since the beginning. Has that ever helped "a regular user" fix a problem with software or hardware failures?
Information is power and believe me, people need information to make informed car repair decisions. My mom takes her car in for repairs - wham, they want $1400. I go in and talk with them - it magically shrinks to $650. Why? Information. I am informed, my mother is not and they took full advantage of it.
A comprehensive list of codes and probable causes, in the back of the owner's manual, could readily help someone determine if the new transmission they're being quoted has anything to do with their "faulty O2 sensor" code that popped up.
It's not about giving them the ability or option to repair themselves (though it could be used that way) but rather to give them a reasonable estimation of what is probably happening in the car (at the least, what part of it is throwing the code) as a means of defending themselves against predatory dealerships or repair facilities.
If my computer threw up a simple "ERROR" message every time something went wrong, I'd have a major problem with that message. So would most people. A semi-detailed explanation of the error (through Microsoft Help) is usually of some assistance. It may not mean I fix the problem but it does mean I don't pay a guy $200 to double my RAM when I know the actual problem is that my hard drive failed... The idea that computer errors have NOT allowed people to diagnose or repair their computers is laughable, especially with the new MS Help topics that are clickable and let you know what could be (or probably is) happening in your machine.
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01-17-2012, 12:21 PM
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A regular driver isn't going to know that AutoZone will scan their car for free. The point of this article is to empower "regular drivers", to let them see into what their car is saying.
Information is power and believe me, people need information to make informed car repair decisions. My mom takes her car in for repairs - wham, they want $1400. I go in and talk with them - it magically shrinks to $650. Why? Information. I am informed, my mother is not and they took full advantage of it.
A comprehensive list of codes and probable causes, in the back of the owner's manual, could readily help someone determine if the new transmission they're being quoted has anything to do with their "faulty O2 sensor" code that popped up.
It's not about giving them the ability or option to repair themselves (though it could be used that way) but rather to give them a reasonable estimation of what is probably happening in the car (at the least, what part of it is throwing the code) as a means of defending themselves against predatory dealerships or repair facilities.
If my computer threw up a simple "ERROR" message every time something went wrong, I'd have a major problem with that message. So would most people. A semi-detailed explanation of the error (through Microsoft Help) is usually of some assistance. It may not mean I fix the problem but it does mean I don't pay a guy $200 to double my RAM when I know the actual problem is that my hard drive failed... The idea that computer errors have NOT allowed people to diagnose or repair their computers is laughable, especially with the new MS Help topics that are clickable and let you know what could be (or probably is) happening in your machine.
A regular driver isn't going to know that AutoZone will scan their car for free. The point of this article is to empower "regular drivers", to let them see into what their car is saying.
Information is power and believe me, people need information to make informed car repair decisions. My mom takes her car in for repairs - wham, they want $1400. I go in and talk with them - it magically shrinks to $650. Why? Information. I am informed, my mother is not and they took full advantage of it.
A comprehensive list of codes and probable causes, in the back of the owner's manual, could readily help someone determine if the new transmission they're being quoted has anything to do with their "faulty O2 sensor" code that popped up.
It's not about giving them the ability or option to repair themselves (though it could be used that way) but rather to give them a reasonable estimation of what is probably happening in the car (at the least, what part of it is throwing the code) as a means of defending themselves against predatory dealerships or repair facilities.
If my computer threw up a simple "ERROR" message every time something went wrong, I'd have a major problem with that message. So would most people. A semi-detailed explanation of the error (through Microsoft Help) is usually of some assistance. It may not mean I fix the problem but it does mean I don't pay a guy $200 to double my RAM when I know the actual problem is that my hard drive failed... The idea that computer errors have NOT allowed people to diagnose or repair their computers is laughable, especially with the new MS Help topics that are clickable and let you know what could be (or probably is) happening in your machine.
My point is that your "regular driver" is going to take the car to the shop anyway, even if they know what code is thrown. And FWIW, the codes from OBD2 are not self-explanatory. You might get a code for a right O2 sensor failure when the issue is a loose connector on the #6 injector causing out-of-spec readings at the O2 sensor. Knowing the error code is helpful to a tech but can actually cost the "regular driver" more money and hassle from incorrect assumptions.
And here you are again describing a woman in your life as incompetent. You get that from driving a pick-up, or have you always been that way?
01-17-2012, 12:25 PM
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Easy fix, just have a small screen you can push a button and get a code from....then look at your owners manual which should have these codes in it on a page in the back. with this standardized the mystery will be revealed and anyone can make an informed choice as to what to do. some cars say now: fluid low, air pressure not right, add coolant, add oil etc...
01-17-2012, 12:56 PM
#10
A "regular driver" can get the codes from their car for free already. They don't have to go to autozone.
My point is that your "regular driver" is going to take the car to the shop anyway, even if they know what code is thrown. And FWIW, the codes from OBD2 are not self-explanatory. You might get a code for a right O2 sensor failure when the issue is a loose connector on the #6 injector causing out-of-spec readings at the O2 sensor. Knowing the error code is helpful to a tech but can actually cost the "regular driver" more money and hassle from incorrect assumptions.
And here you are again describing a woman in your life as incompetent. You get that from driving a pick-up, or have you always been that way?
My point is that your "regular driver" is going to take the car to the shop anyway, even if they know what code is thrown. And FWIW, the codes from OBD2 are not self-explanatory. You might get a code for a right O2 sensor failure when the issue is a loose connector on the #6 injector causing out-of-spec readings at the O2 sensor. Knowing the error code is helpful to a tech but can actually cost the "regular driver" more money and hassle from incorrect assumptions.
And here you are again describing a woman in your life as incompetent. You get that from driving a pick-up, or have you always been that way?
Of course OBD-II codes aren't necessarily self-explanatory, hence my comment that they include a LIST OF POSSIBLE OR PROBABLE CAUSES in the back of the owner's manual.
Seriously, do you even read what I say or do you find an "error" and automatically try to correct it without seeing if it has been balanced out or clarified later in my commentary?
As for my mother being incompetent, yet again you're putting words in my mouth. She lacked the knowledge to know what was and was not valid on a repair estimate (ignorant, perhaps?). She is absolutely incompetent when it comes to repairing a car. She did, however, have the good sense to run it by someone that knows what they're looking at (me) to see if it made sense. I argue that it's better to know your weakness and allow others to assist you than blindly spew out continuous babble about subjects that you clearly don't understand.
