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I'd throw the Golf R and Audi S3 into the mix if you're willing to sacrifice a tad bit more interior space. Both are great drivers cars and handle daily duty well. I loved my R...
The S3 is small inside, but the R actually makes good use of it's dimensions. I don't think you give much up vs a C63 or S4, neither of those are big inside.
The bearing issue is not uncommon, but also not a dealbreaker IMO. The unfortunate thing is it seems unrelated to model years (they changed bearing materials, but all of them have the issue), mileage, usage, etc. and oil analysis doesn't really do any good. But you can still get aftermarket warranties (what I did) or just replace them with BE bearings, which have increased bearing clearance (believed to be the root cause) for about $2k incl. labor. That's what I plan to do when my warranty is up, although that won't be til 102k/2021.
Other than that and throttle actuators (about $1k each and there are two of them, commonly fail around 50k), they are pretty solid. Got my actuators replaced under emissions warranty and otherwise it's been trouble-free in the 17 months and 10k I've had it, including a trackday. Gas mileage does suck though! Worse than the E39 M5 I had.
E9x M3 production was 44% manual in the U.S., although over 50% if you're going for the sedan. DCT is great, but I'm a manual die-hard. After adding the knob from the F10 M5, mine shifts well - certainly no S2k, but not bad. Thought about an SSK but may leave it as-is - it's good enough.
Thank you for the info. Yeah, the friends that have the M3 have had them changed as precautionary maintenance, and I would have to do the same thing for peace of mind if i ended up getting it. If I were to get one, it would have to be a manual. I am torn on purchasing a warranty as I would be able to do the work myself and have not had the best of luck with aftermarket warranties in the past. The reason I had written off the M3 was because of the one my dad bought new in 2011. It was a convertible, so I'm sure part of the issue was due to the lack of a roof, and the added weight, so I will give it another shot.
Originally Posted by s.hasan546
I never loved the e9x m3, honestly I hated it. The v8 motor had no torque. I'd much rather have the c63 or the s4 as a DD. I'd pick the S4, I had one for 2 months and loved it. Great in the snow with proper tires. Very comfy around town and on shitty nyc roads.
Originally Posted by mosesbotbol
Yes, the same 5.0 V8 found in the JLR V8 Supercharged models.
Yeah, i've done a lot of work on that motor in my mom's truck. It's got a lot torque and sounds lovely! I'm sure it flies in a car that weight a lot less! I will definitely take one for a test drive, although it looks like there are not many for sale!
Originally Posted by sam_spider
I had issues with the Stasis exhaust, the bracket in the rear kept breaking, but that was a Stasis issue and not the car itself. The sheet that came with the car stated it was 420hp. My dad had an S63 at the time and my S4 would pull away from it.
Mine was an auto. I had planned on keeping the car after the lease was up, but when Stasis went under I was worried Audi wouldn't honor the warranty any longer. The car was bought as a Stasis tuned car from the Audi dealer, so I had full warranty.
Thanks for the info, so basically all the aftermarket parts were the issue. If I got the s4 it would get the tune and probably an intake or subtle exhaust.
Originally Posted by radiantm3
Not sure how you can consider an S4 and C63 and think an M3 is a snooze-fest. It's by far the most dynamic and exciting car of the bunch. The S4 isn't even in the same category as an M3 or C63.
Thanks for the input. As I had posted earlier in this thread, my dad had bought a convertible m3 in 2011, and I had driven it alot and had been unimpressed with the motor and dynamics, but I'm guessing a lot of that had to do with the lack of a roof. I will definitely take one for a test drive and see how i like the unadulterated coupe/sedan.
Originally Posted by LagunaAzul
Sounds like you are leaning towards the germans, but I have two more options for you:
2015-2017 Chevy SS 6 speed. Other than the bland looks (could be a plus if you are looking for a sleeper) this car does everything really well. It has the 6.2L LS3 motor with 415 HP and TQ, Tremec 6 Speed, RWD, LSD, Magnetic Ride Control, Brembos, sweet exhaust note and tons of Tech and space. Even at 4000 lbs, the car is a blast to drive, and handles pretty well for what it is. The car is also very reliable, and highly modifiable. The best thing is that this car is built in Australia, so you could say it's an import
2011-2014 Lexus ISF: 416 hp, 5.0 V8, RWD, LSD, Brembos, Very nice 8 speed Tranny with great paddles, lots of tech and in my opinion it looks great, especially in Ultrasonic Blue or Starfire White Pearl. This car is a rocket, and can be made even faster with PPE Headers, Exhaust, Intake and a Tune. Now there is even a Supercharger kit if you want more power (but it's $10 grand!). This would be my top picl in this category for sure.
I have owned both of these cars in the past, and also an M3. I have also driven many AMG C63 and Audi S4, and although they are also amazing cars, my vote would go for the ISF. You can even find the 2008-2009s for low 20s in great condition and with good miles. Did I mention these ISFs are bulletproof?
Good luck with your decision!
I had not thought about those two, and will have to take them for rides. I don't know if I could get into the SS, as the depreciation may be quite bad. The ISF looks really nice, especially in that blue and the clean ones seem to keep their value well. Only thing I dont like about it is the interior, especially the center console and the flat area by the shifter. It seems very 90's Japanese.
Originally Posted by white98ls
x2.
"Low torque" is relative. Sure, it has much less than a C63 or forced-induction competitors. But it's still pretty much twice as much as the S2k, peaking at a far lower rpm. Not gonna blow your face off, but I've never been like, "man, this thing can't get out of its own way." And worth the trade-off for the high-rpm goodness, which any S2k lover should appreciate. And it's in a wonderful chassis for a sporty daily driver.
I definitely agree, especially coming from the S2k. I will give it a shot and see if I like it more! That torque though in the c63 is pretty addictive!
Originally Posted by huy33
This... Yes! I have only owned the ISF for 2 weeks as a 2nd weekend car but I can totally see it being a great daily though. It's comfy and if you're easy on the gas, you can get up to 19-20mpg with mixed driver. I've seen it go up to 25+ MPG when you're on the highway because of the 8 speed. The gas tank is SMALL so if you're averaging 15mpg, it'll need constant fill ups. This past weekend when I was driving on the backroads, it showed 10.8 MPG so the car's range isn't great. The 5.0 V8 sound is good. You want the 2012 and later ones as a daily since they have the updated softer suspension.
Haha, so the MPG sounds pretty similar to the C63. THanks for your insight.
Originally Posted by TheDonEffect
The ISF recently just got on my radar as the used prices on those things are making them very appealing. The fact that they weren't too well received in reviews and generally snubbed by M3 type consumers means the demand isn't rabid which means better value on resale. It's still a good car, with a decent chassis, compliant ride, NA V8, and Lexus build quality. For the intended purpose of a fun, everyday type of car, this one checks alot of boxes. Buying used is always a value proposition, and with german cars it comes down to the cost of ownership.
I agree, I will be taking one for a test drive this weekend!
Originally Posted by Revsto8k
I'd throw the Golf R and Audi S3 into the mix if you're willing to sacrifice a tad bit more interior space. Both are great drivers cars and handle daily duty well. I loved my R...
I didn't consider them, but will try them out. Only issue is they're newer and haven't depreciated as much as the older cars have as I'd probably keep the car for 5 years.
Originally Posted by Marioshi
The S3 is small inside, but the R actually makes good use of it's dimensions. I don't think you give much up vs a C63 or S4, neither of those are big inside.
The R would be significantly more practical and may keep its value a bit more compared to the S3. Can you get it in a manual?
Thanks for the info, so basically all the aftermarket parts were the issue. If I got the s4 it would get the tune and probably an intake or subtle exhaust.
I wouldn't do an S4 without a tune, it definitely made it a completely different animal than a stock one. Skip any of the Stasis stuff, there's plenty of other exhaust options out there. I drove the snot out of mine and enjoyed every minute of it. The launch control with awd was very impressive, and addictive.
Thank you for the info. Yeah, the friends that have the M3 have had them changed as precautionary maintenance, and I would have to do the same thing for peace of mind if i ended up getting it. If I were to get one, it would have to be a manual. I am torn on purchasing a warranty as I would be able to do the work myself and have not had the best of luck with aftermarket warranties in the past. The reason I had written off the M3 was because of the one my dad bought new in 2011. It was a convertible, so I'm sure part of the issue was due to the lack of a roof, and the added weight, so I will give it another shot.
If you can do the RBs yourself, I'd just do that and forget the warranty. Car is pretty solid beyond that. The E90 (335i HPFP aside) is generally one of the more reliable BMWs. Mine is getting up to the age/mileage that my E39 M5 was when I got it, and the E90 M3 is far more solid compared to the E39, which constantly had stuff wearing out.
Keep in mind the folding hardtop added a TON of weight (well, not literally). They were 440lbs heavier than the coupe, whereas the sedan is 22lbs heavier. In a car that some people say lacks some torque, that is huge - that's a 12% increase in weight. Ignoring the effects on handling, braking, etc. (and the flexier chassis), a 12% deterioration in power:weight ratio is the same as reducing power by 50hp and 35lb/ft. You're basically driving a 364hp, 260lb/ft version. With the incremental weight increase of the E9x generation vs. E46, you basically have the same power and torque to weight ratio as the E46 M3 or even the Euro E36 M3!
So yeah, go drive a coupe or sedan version. There's a reason most M3 guys don't consider the vert to be a real M3.
Originally Posted by Soul Coughing
I definitely agree, especially coming from the S2k. I will give it a shot and see if I like it more! That torque though in the c63 is pretty addictive!
The C63's torque is definitely on a completely different level. It just depends what type of powerband you enjoy most - a monster motor all the time vs. wringing it out to high heaven. I like both but can't stand autoboxes.
Originally Posted by Soul Coughing
The R would be significantly more practical and may keep its value a bit more compared to the S3. Can you get it in a manual?
Just went on a drive last weekend with a friend, who has a current-gen Golf R manual, so yes.
Just to give an update to people on what I ended up doing.... well I got engaged and decided to keep the capital I'd have used for a car and keep it liquid as a fund for the wedding. My parents bought a new truck and were getting rid of their 2003 Mini Cooper S with 77k miles, (with a bad clutch and some deferred maintenance) so I picked that up and brought it back to life as a super fun budget DD. I spent a decent amount of the 'value' of the car on upgraded parts, gaskets and body work but the thing is so much fun to drive and is surprisingly spacious with the rear seats down.
Just a break down on what I did:
I changed all the gaskets (valve cover, Crank position, front and rear main seal, transmission input, oil cooler and oil filter), replaced the clutch with a Valeo w/solid flywheel, supercharger fluid change, changed coolant overflow, thermostat, slave cylinder, motor mounts except for transmission, LCA bushings, inner ball joints, fluid crank dampener, trans fluid (redline MTL), oil change, new filter, fuel filter, short shifter, new shift cables, steering pump lines and new fluid.
For the fun bits, I put in a Quaife LSD, 27mm H&R front sway bar and an Eibach 19mm rear roll bar, new brakes, a JCW intake, JCW steering wheel, and some R112 wheels. The car already had a 19% reduction pulley, larger injectors, exhaust and tune, and makes about 195-200whp. The car is not fast, but gets out of its own way, and handles like it's on rails. For the money, you can't beat it, especially now all the known issues with the platform have been remedied.
That's some serious work and it looks like you did it yourself? Good for you!!!
Thanks, it was fun to do the work and bring a car back to life. Had a bit of snow a couple weeks ago and even with the semi-bald run flats (have a set of snow tires for it) the Quaife really found the traction.
01-17-2018, 12:42 PM
