2QYK4U

Civic = Civic Si

Chris Stack

[QUOTE=Christople,Apr 12 2006, 05:26 PM]Honda is lacking in every category imo.

Accord's got the new Camry and the new Sonata gunning for it. Step up the V6 option and you are going into entry luxury alternatives.

The new civic is pretty much holding its own with SI options in 2 door as well as 4 door next year.

That brings me to my next car, the Civic Si. It's got the VW GTI as its competitor, as well as the RSX-S, any long term thinker that wants to put "mods" on the Si and you step into WRX range when it comes to price.

TSX - Underpowered for the money, add power to it and you steal TL sales.

Don't get me started on the RL, needs a bigger engine, and lower price.

S2000, oh wait didn't this come out in 2000?

2QYK4U

My only hope is that the Honda corporation (which includes both Hondas and Acuras) is paying very close attention to consumer demands and is developing concepts to meet these demands.

Please understand that Subaru and Mitsubishi are slowly stealing away market share from Honda because they are building cars that are marketed to next generation consumers.

Chris Stack

Hold up...the STi and EVO set the benchmark for the automotive market?

Sometimes I am convinced that you guys don't know there is a magical land called "Reality" where millions of people live, and they buy millions of cars every year based on things other than specific output and driven wheels. A land where people's practical needs outweigh what some opinionated idiot on a car message board says in their car buying decisions. Where boring, vanilla cars and trucks outsell specialized enthusiast toys by a laughable margin.

Wake up guys! Honda has ALWAYS been a mainstream company! They aren't gonna try to topple BMW, they aren't going to try to sell cars that some ricer things they should just because he wants them to, they are going to sell what people buy in droves, because that's what they've always done!

If you want to buy a car from a carmaker that makes special, awesome-performing, no-compromises cars, get yourself a Ferrari or Porsche. Honda is going to keep making mainstream cars that are just slightly less boring than the comparable Toyota or Chevy, because that's what makes them RICH, BITCH!

Chris Stack

Subaru sold 196,000 cars last year. Honda had single models selling more than that. Mitsubishi is a few steps from death, and aside from the EVO, I haven't heard anyone singing the praises of their cars.


You are mistaking what is happening in the enthusiast market, where Honda is losing the fight, for what is happening in the market as a whole, where Honda is assuredly not.

2QYK4U

Hold up Toto...you're not in Kansas anymore.

Yes, the STI and EVO have set the benchmark in terms of inexpensive performance. Name another stock car for under $50K that can compete with either one. You won't find one. These cars provide the greatest bang for the buck. Today's consumer is more concerned with performance than reliability, gas mileage, looks, etc. Shit, look at how many youngsters are buying Neon 4s (I mean SRT-4s). FUGLY car, but cheap performance.

Get off of Hondas-nutsack.

steve c

Are you just making stuff up again? What vehicles are "right around the corner" and why is it okay for you to bench race with these magically forthcoming vehicles, yet no one else in this thread can?

Which of course is perfectly demonstrated with the S2000 ... the NSX (selling in the dozens here in the U.S. for a while) the Ridgeline ....

Chris Stack

Hold up numbnuts, I didn't say the STi or EVO aren't the best performance values around.


What I did say is that that fact doesn't predict anything about the car market as a whole, where these companies are competing in. I am not "on Honda's nutsack," I am merely pointing out what should be an obvious fact: that cars companies that make fast cheap cars aren't always car companies that make cash hand over fist.

Your conclusion that Subaru and Mitsu are going to pass Honda as the __________ car company, based solely on the idea that they make a nice fast $30k sedan that together, sell in a year the volume of Accords Honda sells in less than a month, is absurd.

corey415

Honda is doing fine. The new Accord isn't going to be "left behind"; Honda has too much at stake for this to happen. New Civic is kickin ass, and the Fit will sell well too I believe.

It sucks that they dont update the s2000, but that's just one car in the Honda lineup. By no means a volume seller either.

The problem I see is with Acura. They are hedging their bets on SH-AWD, which isn't a great move. Acura needs a true RWD platform and a V8.

Chris Stack

Way to cherrypick my quotes, a classic steve c debate "technique." You forgot my line " Am I going to tell you that the new Hondas are gonna thrash the Toyotas? Absolutely not, benchracing models that don't exist yet is retarded." All I am saying is that Accords generally have a lifespan of 4-5 years, then they are replaced. We are coming up to the introduction of the '07 models, the current Accord debuted in '03, so I can say with pretty fair certainty that there will be a new Accord in '08, about a year from now. Obviously, the new Camry will beat the old Accord, but that doesn't represent a "failing" of Honda...They aren't in trouble until the new Accord can't compare with the new Camry. Let's wait to see if that happens before sounding the deathmarch.


They did when the NSX and S2000 were new, remember the price premiums? I have criticized Honda before for not replacing/canceling those two before they obsolete, but I have also said Honda is not in the practice of making boutique sports cars, so to judge their performance as a company based solely on two models that were intended to be low volume is silly. If you applied that measure to GM, you'd be amazed to find out that they are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy; how can that be when their ZO6 is selling so well?!? By the way, the Ridegline sold 53k vehicles last year, compared with an expected 50k. A grand-slam homerun? No. But certainly not a failure, so don't try to characterize it as one.

I'm pretty sure you're not an idiot, stevie, so I don't think you have misread my posts or failed to understand what I'm saying. No, what you are doing is taking my words out of context and trying to put meanings behind them that I have contradicted with the parts of posts that you have omitted. You're not fooling anyone with this game, except maybe your lap-dog, Christople, so why don't you cut the shit and discuss my points on the whole, instead of making up these ridiculous little strawman arguments and then knocking them down and pretending you are disproving what I am actually saying?