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-   -   Why Toyota doesn't sell EVs. Do you buy it? (https://www.s2ki.com/forums/car-talk-73/why-toyota-doesnt-sell-evs-do-you-buy-1192385/)

Saki GT 03-09-2019 06:29 AM

Why Toyota doesn't sell EVs. Do you buy it?

Reading the above article, it seems like an interesting argument to make, but do you believe it?

TheDonEffect 03-09-2019 11:53 AM

Makes sense, and I think they recognize that the practical need for evs just isnt there yet as evident by the abysmal resale values for electric cars not named Tesla, and even those are depreciating fairly rapidly.

ChiHonda 03-11-2019 02:08 PM

This has been their position for years. Not sure how c and d spun this as new.

zeroptzero 03-12-2019 01:39 AM

As long as there is a glut of cheap oil around the world the EV segment won't grow very fast IMO. But let the marketing geeks at the big auto giants figure that out and blow billions of dollars as they see fit.

vader1 03-12-2019 11:11 AM

I buy it. But I always thought that just like any technology, first adopters pay a ton. My friend bought a 4k TV when they first came out for $6,000 and then two years later, when you could actually have some 4k content, they were $800. Toyota, I suppose, could have cashed in if they sold electric and were able to charge a giant premium for them, but through profit maximization calculations, felt the batteries were better used elsewhere.

I don't care for an electric car right now and I have only driven my brother's model 3, but you look at the models that have come out on the premium side, and they are all expensive. The mass market side (and I am not talking Cali complinace cars like the 500e, E-golf- or Spark EV) , with the introduction of the Bolt, Kona EV, the Niro Ev, and soon Soul Ev are showing that prices are coming down and will continue. Unless you REALLY want one to save the mother earth, I feel you are jumping the gun and they will continue to get better and cheaper quickly. The Leaf showed that even the cheap ones can get leaps better in one generation.

I also like the idea of them and could find one that interests me in the future, but while my brothers Model 3 was giddily quick when you mash the pedal, the rest of the driving experience left me cold. I like real engine noise, I like real exhaust note, I like the whir of turbos or super chargers and enjoy the mechanical nature of an internal combustion engine. The complexity fascinates me. I like to know about different engine types, and car history, and technology advancements in ICE engines over time and the ones coming in the future. It is what has made me a gear head and made me love cars from the very beginning. My brothers Model 3 seemed like a nice rolling computer, and was not for me. He could get the track dual motor Model 3 and blow the doors off my Porsche in a drag race, and I would still have a huge grin on my face from my exhaust burbles and pops, and shifting my own gears. To each their own.

termigni 04-16-2019 07:47 AM

I have a Model 3 and it's a hell of a fun car (both acceleration and handling due to low center of gravity) if you ask me. last poster (Vader) says Model 3 "left him cold" but yet he owns '14 328, which feels more Buick than a real Buick (the worst car I've driven lately and I'm a BMW fanboy). Model 3 isn't a Cayman S but it is more than perfect daily car which is smart, safe, and efficient. On top of that I even love to drive it on the weekends for fun along side with my S2000 and M2. EV is the future guys.

mosesbotbol 04-16-2019 09:14 AM

Who am I to question the sharpest automotive minds in the business? It makes sense as they it state and they know what their doing. Hydrogen fuel cell sounds like a better idea when it's just as viable as electric cars are today.

engifineer 04-16-2019 12:30 PM

It is not just the batteries, but all the components that make up the protection circuitry that goes in each battery element. And this is a real issue, even for Tesla. It will get worse too. I work in the world of design services (Aka developing and manufacturing products for other companies) and the manufacturers I work with are already experiencing long lead times (As in months in some cases) on what are normally very common parts, like standard types of capacitors. The reason given by most suppliers is the same: EV production. Tesla and others are maxing out the capacity of many suppliers of these parts. And those are the EASY parts to make. The batteries themselves are even worse. This is a real hurdle we have to get over in order to ever get to a full EV market. It will get solved, but it is an issue.

While I like some of the new EV's and hybrids, we also have a real issue of how to handle battery production, which is extremely dirty, creates pollution and a disposal concern of the batteries later on. While they are great for reduction of oil reliance and pollution due to fuel usage, some of that "clean" gets replaced by the nastiness that is the production of batteries (hence why so many batteries are made in countries that pretty much just ignore the environmental impact of production in trade for more money in their pockets ;) ).

Both of these issues will make moving fully to EV's a longer process than many like to admit.

I have done research papers on fuel cells in the past and love the idea there. The main issue there though is viability of the infrastructure. There are great ideas on how to produce hydrogen for their fuel, but most seem to rely on a huge up front push to put it all in place with very few options for a stop gap. Reformers are one stop gap, but they still burn fossil fuels to create the hydrogen. Electrolysis type methods require a lot of electricity, which in the US and many other countries primarily rely on burning coal. Not as much of an issue in geothermal rich areas like iceland, but when you have that much geothermal energy full EV options tend to make a lot more sense.

Basically take what people like Musk, who much aggressively push the marketing to keep support, and almost double those timelines when it comes to these things ;) That is my approach anyways. We will get there at some point.

rob-2 04-19-2019 03:26 AM

I read this a different way. It's not about green, it's about scale.

What he's saying is we're a volume shop and the volume is in hybrids right now. I would expect when that changes Toyota will have an even uglier platform that is full EV to sell the masses.

rwheelz 04-19-2019 08:46 AM

Yep and they will benefit from not having to invest as much in the initial R&D in the early expensive stages.

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