Past or present E92 M3 owners?
 

Hi everyone,

I'm tempted by an E92 M3 with DCT, comp pack and the 2-pipe mod. I've driven a couple briefly but it's hard to get a feel for them in a 5 minute test drive on 30mph roads near dealerships. So cutting to the chase, is it a fun car or dull car?? I've read various opinions both ways, so just wondered what you fellow S2000 folk think. It'll be a daily-ish driver and also used for occasional track days, euro tours, etc...

Cheers!

The E92 M3 is a GT car and quite heavy compared with the S2000. The feel is slightly disconnected from the road, at least that was my experience. Good car for an all weather commute but not as light and nimble as an S2000. That said, caught in a downpour coming back to Norfolk from the A50 across the Kegworth M1 interchange I felt very safe in the M3 whereas in an S I would have been bum twitching.

Dull spirited car, fun with all that power and grip and a safe daily. To me the ride is too stiff especially on 19" wheels and on our roads.

For your application it sounds ideal.

Rog has nailed it. Its a do anything car but to track it feels odd to me, though plenty do.

the engines arent the strongest, fragile bottom ends, the throttle actuators are very likely to fail but its not bank breaking to resolve if you give the dealer a swerve

jack of all trades, master of none. I’d miss mine purely because it can eat a long journey like a limo. It’s probably master of that in fairness. Very quick, very benign handling, lovely engine and currently depreciating fairly slowly

Thanks for your opinions guys. That disconnected feeling is one of the things I'm worried about. If I buy one, as soon as I get to it some familiar roads near home I'll be able to tell instantly if I like it or not. A bit of 30mph road and some dual carriageway is about as good as it gets on most test drives though!

Great car, but I got bored of mine within about a week :(

Wow, it took that long, usually it's about 2 days isn't it? ;)

My affliction is getting better with time :)

Had 3 of the current stable for more than 2 years I think!

The M3 is very nice, and still looks great, it just didnt do a lot for me. The noise was muted even with the M exhaust, and the DCT was so proficient it didnt really feel you were involved. A quick car but you never feel it with limited torque (like the S) you have to really rev it but the speeds are magnified so you rarely get to enjoy it... and it's deffo not a track car.

Has anyone had any experience with Alpinas?

I never used to understand the point of those, but since the Ms seem to be morphing increasingly into failed track-cars, maybe a souped-up 335i or whatever makes more sense as a decent road car.

You'd need to lose the go-faster stripes, of course.

Yep that would be interesting, and cheaper.

The torque comment is interesting as it still has 300lb/ft and its pretty flat from 2k to the rev line

a lot of people say its lacking torque, i assume for lazy driving rather than towing caravans, but i’ve never thought that. Mine will pull from very low revs in 6th if you’re comatose.. having said that i’ve never driven the c63 to compare

its not as Jekyl and hyde as the F20C and did win engine of the year in similar, fairly dominant, fashion

alpinas always seem to have 20 inch wheels now :(

the 335 is a strong option though for a good chunk less cash

and still not a track car :)

i’d buy an Exige S3 :D

295lbs ft but 1600kg to haul around...

When are you going to buy that Exige btw?? It's been 5 years of threatening :D

Torque numbers are largely meaningless, as you need to take gearing into account. If you have 9k revs vs 4.5k revs, you only need half the torques for similar acceleration. (Simplified argument).

I’d argue they are relevant if you want to pootle about not changing gear much, i suppose its about perspective, the c63 has a lot more torque but only a minimal power advantage considering its >50% greater displacement. The s65 has a very flat torque curve (and revs to 8.4k)

anyway.. maybe next year Mark.. i need to take some time out and shift a few cars depending on how the missus’s bad back improves or not..

i dont use a car daily other than the school run so in theory anything fits but we are planning on a bit of development on the house so if we do that i’ll go down to one car for a bit (store or flog t’others)..

I had one for a 1.5 years ..... same as all the above really . I bought it as a weekend /fun car and to be honest it was an absolute blast but just too big and heavy to really get you excited . A very capable car and on the road had to be doing silly speeds to get a thrill .... and for me that was my issue with it , just not fun at normal speeds . I had a 13 plate comp pack and wouldn’t like to run one with out Bmw warranty ... which is around £90 a month !

Ho Lee Shi'. [/Racist]

That's about the depreciation on my Regendo!

The torque thing annoys me

It was especially irritating when it was the default neg about the S2000

Which was/is about the last car on the planet where you should be expecting a surge of acceleration at low speeds in high gears

I have NEVER driven a car that I felt 'lacked torque'

If people find it a hardship to change gear they should drive an auto

Having said all that, 300lb ft is a bit weedy ;)

Fook me how much do you want? What does that massive jag have? S65 has double the S2k torque and ‘only’ weighs c33% more (i’m not suggesting its as good an engine, it plainly isnt)

get a diesel if torque is your thang. Niether interest me

I’ve run an M3 for 5.5 years, 3.5 without warranty so that’s £3k in the bank to fix shit after my TA fix.. its behaved but it doesnt see a lot of use atm

The thing is with the dct box if you want lazy driving you just stamp your foot down and it'll change gear and scream high up in the revs and there's your torque

You don't really notice the 'lack' of torque in the lower revs unless you're in manual mode and try to floor it while being in the wrong gear.

I think it's the perfect car for commuting and the euro trips you're planning will be awesome too.

I've only done 2 trackdays in mine, it's fast and fun but like above it doesn't compare to a proper track car, but then no fast 'normal' car is going to do that I think because of the weight. It does come alive when it all gets nice and hot.

Also depends what track you go to, I enjoyed bedford more than I did brands, spa would be awesome in it I think

:LOL:

The V12 has about 350lb ft (330 or summat bhp)
The 4.2 STR about 400 (and virtually identical bhp) - 'charged tho

I'm ok with manufacturer extended warranties. Good experiences with Ford, BMW, Honda amongst others and view the outlay as a normal part of the running costs. Wouldn't touch the third party stuff with barge pole.

I've done the fighting fund thing too. That gives you a gambler's chance of coming out on top but I like the convenience that comes with the mw.

The new (turbo) M3 has a lot of torque and it took BMW until quite recently to make it any good.

I think that has 400 ish and overwhelmed the traction of rwd constantly (i guess it arrives in a bit of a lump).

For me 300 makes this car very tractable without turning it into a c63 (c500?) which is a bit of a parody imho

it has faults, as win says though its an accomplished daily

Would be nice if the tank was a bit bigger though, I have no problem with the mpg but having to stop for fuel every 4 days is annoying.

Yup - that's the thing I've never quite got, if the TC is constantly shutting down the engine to stop it reversing into hedges. Sounds irritating/pointless to me.

Unless you like standing still & doing burn-outs, of course.

I think my torque comment is being taken out of context. The reason I mentioned it was not to be negative, it was to point out the car needs to be revved to enjoy, as not much happens low down... which is fine in an S2000, but to enjoy those revs in the M3 you are doing mega speeds due to the gearing and power it has etc. In fact within hours of owning mine, I was stopped for doing 3 figures in a fairly low speed area (big open space / moment of madness)

In the Aston, I can have a lot more fun at lower speeds as you don’t need to rev it out.

Basically I had more fun revving the balls off the S at lower speed.

I didn't get past the test drive in the Legend, without fucking Kojak and his fucking Kodak pissing on my bonfire.

They'd Rodney me in an M3...

Haha

i rarely spank the M so inclined to agree but i do let it steer itself a lot. Its a very easy car to do that in, unless its very wet which results in a bit more aggressive reaction

my fave car to drive is the rattly S2.. proper bonkers and looks like its worth 50p

Cheers for the info guys. I can't make my mind up with the E92. I'm wondering if the step up in running costs will be worth the gain (especially on occasional track days), or whether I'll just plain not like it! There's also the question of whether to buy an older car with scope to modify it to my taste, or get a newer comp pack car and leave it OEM - and hope that I like OEM! Plus I still like my S2000 and it will be hard to give it up. I think an E46 M3 would probably suit my purposes better but I've had an E46 330cd for over 10 years now, and fancy a change of scenery. Main reasons for straying from the S2000 are being too tall to drive it comfortably, lack of rollover protection for lanky folk like me, and I really fancy a 6+ cylinder car again.

Maybe you could try and get an extended test drive somewhere?

It doesnt suit track imho, a few of us have made that point, given its weight it will also be very expensive to track if that affects your decision

i spent a day at Brunt with an E46 driver (in my S2) and he went through his tyres whereas a chap in a Cayman S started with worn tyres and just finished them off and mine were pretty new and while they took a bit of a beating i still have them on the car

things like discs are pricey too

but as your daily they are very, very easy to live with

if cost concerns get a 335i

I've been researching Alpinas, since no-one seems to know.

The B5 Biturbo Touring seems one hell of a dog wagon!

Weighs as much as a big Sprinter...

I think you should take the M on track, you'll be surprised how much fun you'll have in it, when it all gets properly hot and it comes alive you don't really notice the weight of it at all
I'm no racing driver but I did enjoy it :)

Yours being a manual doesn't help though I think, I drove one briefly before buying mine and hated it.

335's look boring

I'm not trying to sell the e92 as the best car ever but if I were to have to buy something else in the same price catagory I'd struggle to find something as fast, comfortable, entertaining and practical at the same time

Having my primary cats deleted next week, that'll make the mpe sound a bit throatier :)

I have a considerably quicker, less expensive s2 which is (one day!) going be my track car. Whether it likes it or not haha. Assuming it passes it’s MOT. Err

i’m not arguing about capability, i just think its too cosseting for me.
And i agree that for the dosh its good value.

i’d rather drive a 145bhp caterham on track tbh

as for manual v dct that’s a personal choice, i drove the DCT 335i and knew an auto wasnt for me but people do seem to get very hung up on justifying their
choice.

they look like great road cars to me but I'm not sure I'd want to take one on track

whenever I've seen them on track they're no match for much cheaper track day specials and I think that would annoy me, not least because of the number of people who seem to be scalp collectors

it's a problem for loads of fast road cars. I wouldn't take my STR on a track for the same reasons

it's not a flaw, just not driving the car in the conditions to which it is best suited

Have to say I’ve never cared about what’s faster then me on track / what I’m faster than - too many variables and not what trackdays are about.

Think I spent 2 days in Portugal and nothing legitimately overtook me once, but I’d be sure one of the GT3RSs could have taken me in the right hands. For me it’s about enjoying the car and your limits. I couldn’t enjoy an M3 as the brakes are definitely made of chocolate, it’s drinks fuel and it would kill its tyres. I’d enjoy driving someone else’s though :)

I hear a lot of people say that Mark - probably the majority - but it doesn't seem to translate into a lot of the driving I've witnessed

Whilst I wouldn't be bothered about being overtaken by a £3K Clio I just think I'd rather be IN the Clio

I've gone right off 'all rounders'

I came to the conclusion that one needs a garage full of cars - as Notts put it, Jacks of all trades are masters of none...

It's a heavy car for the track, but at the same time I don't think I could own a car like that and only drive it on the road. It would feel like a waste! Even so, the additional costs are quickly adding up and then I wonder if it's actually worth it. For example, I couldn't risk a £20k+ car on track without insurance, so what's that, another £50-£100+ a day? Plus twice as much fuel, tyres and brakes probably. And then I'm back thinking I should keep the S2000 again. Argh! I've thought about a dedicated track car but I don't fit in most of the usual suspects, and don't think it'd get enough use to justify it.

WinFreak, what suspension is yours running? Any experience of EDC on track?

The two E92s I had in mind have been ruled out, so I'll procrastinate for a bit longer!

If you're careful you can come with me next time :D

It's on standard comp pack suspension, I'm sure even in full M mode it still rolls a bit but it doesn't feel too wallowy.

I've always just done the trackdays to enjoy myself and the car, get overtaken by all sorts but I don't really care. really have no desire to drive a rattly old clio or caterham even if it's miles faster than me :D

I did about 5 a year in the s2000 and have only done 2 in the m3 in 3yrs... get just as much of a rush out of going out on my mtb for an afternoon and it's a lot cheaper!

No, I can see the point of that - a track is merely a road fast enough for the car and free of oncoming traffic.

Well, apart from some idiot spinning his S2000...

In a caterham everything is so much more
apparent. No filter. You know exactly what those front tyres are doing, exactly what the reara are doing too.

i cannot see your point of view Win. As a driving experience there is no comparison, the M3 is neutered, electrofudged utter garbage.

its a better road car though :)

Maybe you've got a duff one and I've got a good one? I know the comp pack makes a big difference on how it handles and I know your electronic throttle bodies have always given you grief. Mine are fine :)

Dunno

I know it's more remote than whatever purpose built track car but it doesn't bother me that much. It still makes nice noises and it goes to where you point it, despite it's heavy weight.

I think its just perspective.

I want a more raw driving experience and you dont. We’re at opposing ends of the scale.

my nephew prefers the M3 to the (rattly with HT on) S2 but for me there is just no competition as a driving experience.

I hate electronic throttles full stop. They are shitter than a mechanical throttle every day in my book as you don have direct control, there is a ZX81 in the middle deciding whether to obey.

I‘m a contented luddite in this area.. e shit may be faster but i doubt i’ll ever drive a tesla for fun

If the roads here were better quality I would've still been in my s2000 I'm sure. Just got fed up of bouncing around in it all the time. Polybushing it didn't help I guess :)

My M throttle in sports mode did a bit of kangarooing in the beginning but it's sorted it self out pretty soon and now just feels nice and direct, I use it pretty much every day.

Same goes for the edc I guess, put it in sporty mode and it feels just as stiff as the s2000 did.

I've never driven a prefacelift S so maybe cos mine was already more complient the difference to the m3 isn't that great...

Absolutely.

But there is a certain level of enjoyment by taking something incredibly daft to a track too:

<

I think ride quality there aint much in it. My SC one has silly stiff coils so is ridiculous over some roads to the point i use different routes

i’m sure that would be amusing Nick, the M would be too but for me an over expensive novelty.

Talking of which i read a review of the MC12 versione corse..

no TC
no ABS
745bhp
NA

that sounds right up my alley

OP should get one. £2m is a bit pricey though, for me :(

:D

I've had all four of my Leg End's tyres squealing equally on a roundabout, just like that drifting RL. So don't tell me it's just track days that are expensive...heavy cars are heavy.

leaving aside the roads/polybushing bit, I agree about the Jeckyl and Hyde nature of the E92 in sport mode. In fact to me the throttle response felt almost too sharp. But even though I used to enjoy the M3 on the twisty 'biker aware' roads it was still going illegally too fast before it was fun. My early S2000s OTOH were too twitchy to feel safe. Whereas the 'new' S feels just right.

No doubt a Caterham or Exige would be yet another level (if I could get in and out of the thing :vintage:)

Where the E92 M3 reigns supreme to me is as a rapid cross country mile eating machine, with Dr Jeckyl on DCT for long stretches then bang into M mode and paddle shifts to overtake any obstacles in Mr Hyde mode ... and breathe.

The strange thing is, I find myself driving at illegal speed in the new S more often than I did in the M3 :confused:

Such a timely, and yet also confusing thread to read!




Positive changes at work mean that I think I’m ready for my next ‘M’ adventure (had an E39 M5 and an E46 M3 previously) which would sadly mean I’d have to part ways with my beloved S2000 of 6 year’s ownership.




I’ve always liked E92 M3’s, love the idea of the 8.3k rpm V8 and the better all round nature of one, but will I miss the Honda-ness? And if I do sell the S, can I ever come back to one? (This is my second S2000, had them for a round 10 Years). It would seem strange to sell this S, then buy another one down the line if I get bore with the beemer. I am in an unusual position (perhaps?) as the missus has an MX5 so I’d still have access to roof down fun, and I have an EP3 Type R for VTEC blasts and occasional track thrills, so could the M3 sit in ‘the middle’ as my weekends/special road drives fun car? Or is it not ‘fun enough’?




I take on board the point about having to go silly speeds to get the thrills, but the last one I drove had a decent exhaust and it sounded absolutely glorious even pootling around, and better under acceleration. Same as the feel of the thing, it was way more engaging than my E46 M3 was in the same conditions!




Plus, they are relatively cheap to buy at the moment, if they begin to appreciate I could curse myself for not grabbing one when they were at their pricing trough.




I’m mechanically savvy so could fix the throttle issues if and when they occur, the rod bearing stuff is a bit more of a concern, but it could also be the numbers game and it may never be a problem for most owners. There’s always blackstone too.....




Will be watching this thread for sure! :)

Do you need 4 seats?

i think known history is the thing, you could always ask for an oil test (at your expense)
i very much doubt they'll appreciate even though there arent tons around, it's a swan song but it's probably more like the E39 M5 than any previous M3. There weren't any special editions like CSLs which can command interest, just cosmetics and options stuff
if you dont need practical look elsewhere

Very good points. No, I don't need 4 seats in any way. I have access to other sensible cars.

Perhaps I'll push on with my plan of supercharging the S!

Every time I SORN the S for winter I find myself looking for M3s!

SORNing it's a bad move; that tends to happen.

Then you drive it again and remember why they are so addictive.

It's unfamiliarity breeds contempt, if you will.

A SC S2000 is a lot more exciting imho

if you want to cruise around in a gear too low and make sexy noise get an M3 with a proper exhaust. If you want something to poke your adrenal gland and possible kill you SC your s2000

hth :D

You chaps make a convincing case, especially as I was on the fence to start with! :)

i must admit, as Nick has said; it just takes that first drive to the MOT centre on the 1st of April to remind me why I’ve kept her for 6 years!

SC it is then! Thanks all :)

If you don’t need 4 seats there no way I’d be looking at saloons!

since when did you need 4 seats?

haha.. i completely agree btw.. lightness is our friend

For lugging race gear / bikes around :) Might be tempted by a Velar but the Merc is great. I should be down to just that, the Aston and the Caterham with the 2 S2000s being prepared for sale :)

i cant keep up, thought you still had that Dealer’d up RR haha

use that v12 much? I pass aston Nottm every day at the mo and still think yours is the best looking car they have ever made

:D :thumbup:

Nope the RR went a while ago, got a GLC 43AMG now :)

Aston really doesn't get used... 2000 miles in 2 years, but i've got a couple of big trips planned this year so hoping to double that! Decat pipes coming too :)

(sorry for the diversion OP)

Please make a video when the pipes are on :)

That car would be perfect on a euro trip through the Alps etc!

Back on topic: there are a couple of major recalls just out from BMW including E92 M3s from 2007-2011. Existing owners please note :freak2:

edit: nice motor MB if I were commuting and doing miles I would seriously consider this, agile machine for a 4x4

+1 what Wilfried says, sadly I seem to have missed the 'today I bought' thread :LOL:

A bit of an update. My S2000 is now gone, replaced by an E92 M3. I picked it up on Friday and have been very impressed with it so far. The roads have been pretty wet and damp this weekend so I haven't been able to push it much, but already really impressed with it. Handling seems very good so far, nimble and quick to steer. Not the big barge I was worried about! The engine and gearbox are pretty spectacular, very entertaining. So far so good, really glad I've made the change! :)

Thanks for everyone's feedback, helped with the decision making

What did you buy? Year? Comp pack?

oh and photos of course :)

Hope you enjoy it, certainly good for this weather

there is another dad at my lads school who has a newer turbo M3. Powder blue.

i wouldnt swap. The NA, with the right exhaust, sounds sooo much better. His sounds like a chavved up nova.

Initially I was looking at comp pack cars but I decided to save quite a big chunk of cash and went for an 08 with DCT. I decided I could live without EDC, plus the rest of the spec was exactly what I was looking for. It's space grey with the 18-inch 260 wheels, which I prefer over the 19s. It's in fantastic condition and the service history is spot on. It's had a lot of things done in the past few k - new throttle actuators, new discs and pads all round, new MPSS tyres, new spark plugs, oil & filters service, etc. So hopefully it won't need anything spending on it for a few months. Other than a 2-pipe mod, which I'll probably get done soon. So yeah, really chuffed so far. It's made driving fun again, which was the main aim!

I'm not a fan of the F80 cars either. The styling is so fussy, I just wouldn't want to have to look at it every day!

Sounds like all the pricey stuff was done

discs are ££
plugs are a bitch to fit

it looks ok in dark colours the M4.. and they do shift but it sounds really, really crap

Sounds like a nice one, see what version dct software it has as the 08 ones can be a bit clunky which you can fix with installing a later one

I would have a F80 m3 over an m4, the inside is quite nice but like you say they just sound awful

from a looks perspective?

this pic is what drew me to the M3

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...e83f89f1dd.jpg

i have genuine comp pack wheels and no red calipers/duck tail but otherwise mine is close to that :)

as those derivative cars go i think both the E46 and E92 look pretty good, the E46 is really small compared with the 92 though. it's just not a v8. I could have bought a mint CSL in 2012 for the same cash as this, that would definitely have been a better investment :D

Yeh, the back end of the m4 just looks fat and ugly where the m3 looks mean and wide. Engine and sound wise I have no interest in either of them!


That looks nice, they don't need much to make them look agressive I think, front looks a bit dated now when you see it next to a new one but it doesn't make me want to change yet. E46 is looking pretty dated now I think, more so than an s2000 does of the same years.

I went through the same thought process. Ended up with a very well spec’d e92 335i M sport and kept the S.

Great daily but having a few problems with it though :turbo actuators, injector and carbon build up :(

Glad you like yours :thumbup:

Just incase people find this thread in the future, here's an update. I've had the car a few months now and done about 4000 miles as a daily driver. Still really enjoying it and glad I switched. I'd say it's an excellent do-it-all car. Fast, sounds great, comfortable and well built. Engine and gearbox, not surprisingly I prefer the M3. The novelty of banging it through the gears hasn't worn off yet, I'm glad to say. It's also great to just cruise around in, which I found the S2000 never was. The engine sounds good at any revs and the extra comfort is very welcome. I also prefer the M3's handling over my S2000 as well. The extra weight doesn't feel like a hindrance on the road and it's a very fun car to chuck around. The steering seems very direct and has more feedback than my S2000; that always felt a bit vague to me.

On track, I'd still prefer the S2000 I think. Mainly because I could probably live with that being written off, whereas the M3 is a good chunk more money. I'd even taken out extra insurance but the excesses are so big it still weighed on my mind a bit. The brakes were also totally standard, so I took it easy really. MDM mode made me feel like a driving god in the wet, so that was a plus! Maybe once I've had the car a bit longer I won't be so uptight about damaging it, but for now, road-driving is loads of fun again!

The only downsides I can currently think of are the tax and MPG (rubbish obviously), and the DCT is a bit annoying around town sometimes. I'll probably look into upgrading the software eventually. Apart from that, happy so far!

Pretty much agree with all of that, after owning mine for 3.5yrs and 35k miles I still enjoy it!

Get the GTS gearbox software, it will make the box soooo smooth.

I just had one of the actuators replaced under warranty and the throttle feels so much smoother, it must've gradually got worse. Hope the other one goes before my warranty runs out.