Tehk

Thats jason schmucks car. It has had that motor in for years now, but the turbo kits keep changing. Definitely a cool show piece. Though it is the second twin turbo J series

davidc1

Doesn't the J series way far more than the F series?

MemphiS2k

Actually the F20/22 are pigs. The J32/37 weigh less. The F22C1 weighs 326lbs, and the J35a8 I want weighs 297lbs.

Chibo

Your 326lb F22C1 is with accessories, and your 297lb is a bare J35a8 motor.

MemphiS2k

After a little search, you appear to be correct. I was going off what other J-swap folks had told me. It appears a fully loaded J35a8 is Around 376lbs so exactly 50lbs more than the F22C1.

imstimpy

Here is my take:
* Engine swaps are hard. The information is just not out there. There is a Super Street article, the lone thread by V6 Donut, a thread by Divers, the occasional Instagram or blog post by Sector One Design, then a sporadic technical tidbit from J32a.com, v6performance.net/forums, acurazine.com/forums, nsxprime.come/forum, or honda-tech.com/forums. I can't find an active community.
* Despite the j-series having a following in the EG drag world, the aftermarket doesn't support it. Nearly everything is OEM or custom. What little aftermarket there is pertains primarily to the ~260HP J32a2 or J35a3 from 2001-2003 and next to nothing for the newer motors.
* The prestige of a US designed and built Honda luxury sedan motor? Yeah... Oh, and it can't breath past 7,000.

That is just the obvious stuff.

Here is a host of other things that I think may be relevant:
* Swapping a fully emissions compliant engine requires going as new or newer on the drivetrain then extreme diligence rewiring, swapping components, and retrofitting. Oh, and then Honda did some whack ass shit with the gauge clusters and drive by wire controller in the S2000s.
* Lots of custom parts from oil filter relocation and water hose routing, to A/C brackets and hoses, wiring harnesses, to custom intake manifolds, intakes, and exhaust piping.
* The driver's exhaust sits beside the fuel and brake lines.
* The appealing j-series (those making 280-300HP) have the exhaust runners integrated into the head; great for packaging, perhaps, but untraditional for performance applications.
* Though some examples have a forged crank and rods, the bearings are smaller than the k-series, which are smaller than the F-series.
* A low oil pan and dual exhausts reduce ground clearance.
* Engines, like the j-series and k-series, were designed for transverse applications. For the k-series, it takes a host of parts to keep the oil in the correct places. For the j-series, all I've seen are rumors of doing an oil pan baffle and no concrete examples or information.
* Swapping out an 8-9,000 RPM engine for one that spins to 7,000 RPM requires very different gearing to be ideal.

With all that said, though, the j-series seems like a far more affordable and reliable way to add some power when compared to building an F24 or swapping a K24. Is it worth it over selling it all and buying a Porsche? That I don't know.

MemphiS2k

There's no emissions in my state.

So custom as in unbolting it and turning it around? Not exactly mind boggling.

The exhaust runners being integrated into the block aren't stopping any of the TL Type-S guys from making big power.

And? Making real power on an F20/22 requires rear end work as well. Changing gearing ratio doesn't add cost if you're already cracking the pumpkin.

If I wanted a Porsche, I'd buy one.

imstimpy

The majority of the US population, however, does require adherence to emissions regulations.

I have not seen definitive proof that a newer manifold, sitting anywhere from a rumored 1/2"-1" lower than the 01-03, actually clears the slender hood of the S2000. I've seen people weld in new turned down throttle body necks, cut the webbing from the hood, go completely custom, and/or add spacers. There appears to be a variety of heights associated with runner spacers (minivan/SUVs vs sedans), materials (aluminum vs magnesium), and years (1st vs 2nd vs 3rd generation perhaps?). I'd love to see more information on the manifolds themselves so I can strike this problem from the list of problems.

In addition, the throttle bodies vary over the applications so few throttle bodies just plug in. If you pair an old manifold with a new throttle body, you cross from drive by cable to drive by wire (and vice versa) and need an adapter. If you go with drive by cable you are either converting your car from DBW or building a new cable pull.

Show me where I can read more "big power" non-turbo builds. I've read countless accounts from the youngone501, then a number of incomplete builds with pipe dreams of 300+whp and 8000+RPM. As best I can discern, the integrated ports can produce power but they are obviously limited in runner length. The oil passages are slightly different, again as best as I can tell, so whichever generation motor you select you stick with it. For us road racers, somebody mentioned that the coolant passages are in very close proximity to exhaust ports on the newer heads.

Don't get me wrong, using a 2nd or 3rd gen motor (newer than J32A3 or J35A4) adds simplicity and decreases swap cost as it relates to adapting the exhaust. I cannot speak from experience, but I think the S2000 needs the manifolds to sweep backwards, and stay tight, to avoid the engine mounts and the frame. Regardless of the heads, custom manifolds or down pipes are probably necessary; cost to build a down pipe, though, is far cheaper.

My notes say the J35A8 transmission bolt pattern changed, which means existing adapter plates won't work. I don't know when the bolt pattern changed, but it is probably safe to say 3-port motors (1st gen) are different than 1-port motors (2nd and 3rd gen).

Not all of us are trying to make "real" power. A basic 280whp J swap will out accelerate many of the vehicles on the track. As such, there isn't a need to crack open the diff unless/until something breaks (excepting the final drive). I, like many others, already opened the diff once to put in a clutch-based diff and would be reticent to open it again until necessary.

Rather than argue about the concerns I and, no doubt, others may have, why not do us all a favor and, instead, supply the information that I cannot find?

MemphiS2k

Nearly all performance parts cause emission issues. Doesn't seem to stop the majority of this forum from skirting the rule. Surely most all the boost builds are far outside the realms of emissions compliance, and those are the builds being compared in this thread originally. But I understand your concern.

I've seen an unmodified hood close over an unmodified manifold in person. I believe it was from a J37 that are a bit shorter. Chris Dornon managed to clear the hood fine since he ran lower engine mounts than what Inline Pro runs now.

I believe the turned down welded throttle bodies are from people running much large TB's that couldn't be bolted up otherwise. As for DBW, my 07 should complement the DBW J35A8 just fine.

When did I say non-turbo big power? Are you suggesting boost builds aren't affected by exhaust restrictions just the same as NA builds. A bottle neck would hurt all builds.

Per youngone501's build thread, the coolant port proximity to exhaust ports is an issue on the Full VTEC J37 heads that he was hoping to utilize. This has been confirmed by others I have talked to.

I'm not sure about this one, but Inline Pro said they could handle a J35A8.

Why is it automatically arguing if I don't agree with 100% of what you said?

imstimpy

For the a drop-in DBC solution (and one with lower CFM), apparently a base TL (01-03?) is significantly shorter than the CL-S.


Everybody suggests the 09 TL-SHAWD for a lightweight (magnesium), high flow, lower profile solution. At $220 from Acura, no less!

Here is Swift mentioning coolant proximity to exhaust ports on all single-port heads.
Everything I'm seeing says the J35A8 has a different bellhousing. There is nothing that says InlinePRO couldn't cut a different adapter plate, though, assuming it is only slightly different. I'm also seeing some noise on the weakness of the J35A8 bottom-end, but nothing concrete.