Why don't more people go J-series? What am I missing?
02-05-2018, 01:28 PM
#51
that's where I'm at, the accord V6 six speed is a beast, I love my s2000 don't get me wrong, I love the chassis and the looks and it's fun to rev it up but it's gutless, you wrap it out but don't get anything in return. When you add an exhaust it's even worse, ton of Ricey noise with nothing to back it up.
A good buddy of mine/Xs2000 owner had a mid 2000's TL 270ish hp type and we did plenty of pulls with my NA bolt on S and he never got around me, was pretty even. The point I was making wasn't the performance per say, but the character of the engine. It doesn't have to be the fastest to be a fun engine to operate, and the F series has a pretty great combination of both performance and character. And if its lacking in the performance part of the equation for you, thats what centrifugal superchargers are for
And before you say still not enough low end trq, well thats not what this game is about. Its about top end trq and a close ratio 6 speed with a driver that appreciates fully what it means to drive a true sports car and the fun in getting the most out of it. otherwise skip the v6 and just get the ls3. Why go part way, right. The ls3 weighs all of 50lb more then the F/20/22.
02-05-2018, 02:22 PM
#52
You must be doing it wrong.
A good buddy of mine/Xs2000 owner had a mid 2000's TL 270ish hp type and we did plenty of pulls with my NA bolt on S and he never got around me, was pretty even. The point I was making wasn't the performance per say, but the character of the engine. It doesn't have to be the fastest to be a fun engine to operate, and the F series has a pretty great combination of both performance and character. And if its lacking in the performance part of the equation for you, thats what centrifugal superchargers are for And before you say still not enough low end trq, well thats not what this game is about. Its about top end trq and a close ratio 6 speed with a driver that appreciates fully what it means to drive a true sports car and the fun in getting the most out of it. otherwise skip the v6 and just get the ls3. Why go part way, right. The ls3 weighs all of 50lb more then the F/20/22.
A good buddy of mine/Xs2000 owner had a mid 2000's TL 270ish hp type and we did plenty of pulls with my NA bolt on S and he never got around me, was pretty even. The point I was making wasn't the performance per say, but the character of the engine. It doesn't have to be the fastest to be a fun engine to operate, and the F series has a pretty great combination of both performance and character. And if its lacking in the performance part of the equation for you, thats what centrifugal superchargers are for
And before you say still not enough low end trq, well thats not what this game is about. Its about top end trq and a close ratio 6 speed with a driver that appreciates fully what it means to drive a true sports car and the fun in getting the most out of it. otherwise skip the v6 and just get the ls3. Why go part way, right. The ls3 weighs all of 50lb more then the F/20/22.
02-05-2018, 02:34 PM
#53
I wouldn't say I'm doing it wrong, I've owned a few turbo civics, a del sol, the rotary Rx7, the LS Rx7, G35.... I can appreciate what the s2000 is which is why I'm working on one currently. I'm more than likely going to run a supercharger, I like the SOS kit but I want to configure something with a front mount IC. I enjoy driving my S2000 spirited, I'll take it out to Austin and me and the ole lady will rip the hill country up and it is a lot of fun. I would gladly swap my car when the time is right, the last LS swap kind of fried my nerves so I'm trying to do aesthetics first this time around so I can actually have some seat time vs. wrench time. I think I may have came off harsh before, the F22 is fun, I just the a properly set up J would be more fun.
02-05-2018, 02:54 PM
#54
Just an 05/na2 NSX in sport car form, never mind the jap/america trucks and suv's I've driven. Safe to say the NSX v6 was the most interesting/fun character produced out there? Actually was kind of peaky and fun with its vtec. Otherwise they are all kind of like sewing machines. Not to mention all the added work/pain in the ass maintaining a v engine, but with two less cylinders of performance.
What makes me think a swap would be a great idea are a few things.
1.) It's still a Honda platform
2.) It's a proven reliable engine
3.) It makes just enough power stock to make the S2000 a more fun daily driven car
People do a lot of FI work to get their S2000s in the high 300whp to low 400whp range. If you were to take a stock J-series, even with a lower hp number, it would give you that same smile factor as a FI F-series. And, you wouldn't have to ring it out to make it go.
02-05-2018, 03:28 PM
#55
The newer v6 engines are more exciting than what the NSX offered. The NSX was similar to the S2000 in the essence that you had to rev it to the moon to make it go. It's what Honda performance oriented engines do though, so no bad marks meant in that aspect. The V6 in the 2009 TL SH-AWD makes 305hp at 6300rpm and 273tq at 5000rpm. When you hit the gas on the newer offerings they really move.
What makes me think a swap would be a great idea are a few things.
1.) It's still a Honda platform
2.) It's a proven reliable engine
3.) It makes just enough power stock to make the S2000 a more fun daily driven car
People do a lot of FI work to get their S2000s in the high 300whp to low 400whp range. If you were to take a stock J-series, even with a lower hp number, it would give you that same smile factor as a FI F-series. And, you wouldn't have to ring it out to make it go.
What makes me think a swap would be a great idea are a few things.
1.) It's still a Honda platform
2.) It's a proven reliable engine
3.) It makes just enough power stock to make the S2000 a more fun daily driven car
People do a lot of FI work to get their S2000s in the high 300whp to low 400whp range. If you were to take a stock J-series, even with a lower hp number, it would give you that same smile factor as a FI F-series. And, you wouldn't have to ring it out to make it go.
What i find much more enjoyable/fun is a powerful high revving engine that requires you to be in the upper revs to make it work, not just mash the throttle in any gear at any speed and be lazy. That's inherent of a sports car/racing car with true pedigree, not a watered down Americanized version for the average driver. Always has been and there is a reason. You can make more power the higher you wind out an engine, keeping it small displacement makes it light and a light car doesn't require as much low end trq, thats what gearing is for. Its a solid formula thats never changed and its what the S2000 was built upon, among many other great racing cars through automotive history. A v6 goes against that grain in all those respects, but Honda broke the old mold to make it work for the nsx with their ground breaking top end technology for the time. I dont see a more interesting v6 right now that revs to 8500k that reproduces a similar power band.
And I can bolt on a stage one Comptech/VT/SOS supercharger in a weekend and make 300whp, or I can buy an EMS and injectors and make 400whp on Monday after i get back from the tuner. Its not hard and its not complicated. If you want to take a 500whp Sc to the road course and lap it for 20-30min sessions, then yeah its going to require more time and more experience. Ive been at each stage in the s2k stopping short at the 500whp reliable track version due to my wallet, but a supercharged F20/22 is pretty damn fun and pretty damn reliable, ive DD one for years.
Put a flat plane crank v8 in the s2k and you will have my attention.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 02-05-2018 at 03:49 PM.
02-05-2018, 06:20 PM
#56
What i find much more enjoyable/fun is a powerful high revving engine that requires you to be in the upper revs to make it work, not just mash the throttle in any gear at any speed and be lazy. That's inherent of a sports car/racing car with true pedigree, not a watered down Americanized version for the average driver. Always has been and there is a reason. You can make more power the higher you wind out an engine, keeping it small displacement makes it light and a light car doesn't require as much low end trq, thats what gearing is for. Its a solid formula thats never changed and its what the S2000 was built upon, among many other great racing cars through automotive history. A v6 goes against that grain in all those respects, but Honda broke the old mold to make it work for the nsx with their ground breaking top end technology for the time. I dont see a more interesting v6 right now that revs to 8500k that reproduces a similar power band.
02-06-2018, 04:44 AM
#57
And thats why i felt it was good for a v6. I think your still missing the point on what i was trying to relay with what a great sports car engine with character is. High revving lower trq engine is a preferred. Ask any Ferrari enthusiast. Don't get hung up on the numbers, that means little depending on what the power to weight is. The 'character' IE; how it revs, where in the band it makes power and its response) is what matters. Making 300trq at 1500 rpm and then signs off at 6k rpm, is not interesting to me at all. If it was, id be a drag racing cross plane push rod v8 enthusiast.
What i find much more enjoyable/fun is a powerful high revving engine that requires you to be in the upper revs to make it work, not just mash the throttle in any gear at any speed and be lazy. That's inherent of a sports car/racing car with true pedigree, not a watered down Americanized version for the average driver. Always has been and there is a reason. You can make more power the higher you wind out an engine, keeping it small displacement makes it light and a light car doesn't require as much low end trq, thats what gearing is for. Its a solid formula thats never changed and its what the S2000 was built upon, among many other great racing cars through automotive history. A v6 goes against that grain in all those respects, but Honda broke the old mold to make it work for the nsx with their ground breaking top end technology for the time. I dont see a more interesting v6 right now that revs to 8500k that reproduces a similar power band.
And I can bolt on a stage one Comptech/VT/SOS supercharger in a weekend and make 300whp, or I can buy an EMS and injectors and make 400whp on Monday after i get back from the tuner. Its not hard and its not complicated. If you want to take a 500whp Sc to the road course and lap it for 20-30min sessions, then yeah its going to require more time and more experience. Ive been at each stage in the s2k stopping short at the 500whp reliable track version due to my wallet, but a supercharged F20/22 is pretty damn fun and pretty damn reliable, ive DD one for years.
Put a flat plane crank v8 in the s2k and you will have my attention.
What i find much more enjoyable/fun is a powerful high revving engine that requires you to be in the upper revs to make it work, not just mash the throttle in any gear at any speed and be lazy. That's inherent of a sports car/racing car with true pedigree, not a watered down Americanized version for the average driver. Always has been and there is a reason. You can make more power the higher you wind out an engine, keeping it small displacement makes it light and a light car doesn't require as much low end trq, thats what gearing is for. Its a solid formula thats never changed and its what the S2000 was built upon, among many other great racing cars through automotive history. A v6 goes against that grain in all those respects, but Honda broke the old mold to make it work for the nsx with their ground breaking top end technology for the time. I dont see a more interesting v6 right now that revs to 8500k that reproduces a similar power band.
And I can bolt on a stage one Comptech/VT/SOS supercharger in a weekend and make 300whp, or I can buy an EMS and injectors and make 400whp on Monday after i get back from the tuner. Its not hard and its not complicated. If you want to take a 500whp Sc to the road course and lap it for 20-30min sessions, then yeah its going to require more time and more experience. Ive been at each stage in the s2k stopping short at the 500whp reliable track version due to my wallet, but a supercharged F20/22 is pretty damn fun and pretty damn reliable, ive DD one for years.
Put a flat plane crank v8 in the s2k and you will have my attention.
I love my F series, don't get me wrong...I just think the J is begging to be put in the S2000 chassis. It would be a blast....in a different kind of way.
02-06-2018, 05:23 AM
#58
2) HPD are not the folks behind the S2000, they're a bunch of bored American engineers. Bored engineers do dumb stuff all the time.
02-06-2018, 06:11 AM
#59
A bunch of bored engineers? They're a subsidiary of Honda Racing. You're acting like they're a couple of bubbas working out of a makers space. They are a commercial race organization, who is generally highly respected on this board.
02-06-2018, 06:16 AM
#60
They're a bunch of engineers doing something with no purpose. It was never going into production, it was never going to be raced, it only exists because Honda didn't make anything exciting in the era & Honda needed something to trot out to events.
