S2000 weight reduction
07-16-2007, 10:35 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
S2000 weight reduction
There are 2 ways to influence your power to weight ratio, (obviously), add more power, or decrease the weight. Adding more power simply makes the car accelerate better. Decreasing weight, however, makes the car accelerate better, brake better, and handle better. Since I bought my car, I have been experimenting with the weight. The idea is to get below 2500 pounds. However, I want to keep a full interior so the car can be driven daily on the street.
The curb weight of a MY00 off the showroom floor is 2,809 pounds. To reach my goal, I had 300 pounds to carve away from the car. Seem challenging? The curb weight of the C-West S2000 is a little over 2200 pounds (without fuel or driver). If they can take 600 pounds off, I can take 300 pounds off. There are 3 steps to weight reduction.
1. Remove unnecessary parts
2. Replace parts with lighter versions
3. Replace steel and aluminum body panels with carbon fiber
For step one, there are tons of things on the car that can go. First of all, gut the trunk. I removed the tool kit, spare tire, and all trunk carpeting and sound proofing material. This takes away nearly 50 pounds!
For all of you who have nagging wives/girlfriends/hookup buddies, or friends who like to bum rides, this is the best mod out there. The passenger seat with rails weighs 33 pounds. The fatass sitting in it weighs a lot more than that on most occasions. The rear seat rail bolts are 14mm and the front bolts are 12mm. The first time you take the seats out, it will take some torque to get those bolts loose. This is something quick and easy that you can do on a track day or group drive where you'll be by yourself.
The next thing that can go is the factory radio and speakers. To do this, you will need to unscrew the 2 panels where the driver's right knee and passenger's left knee would rest. Then pop off the front panel and start unscrewing things. The door panels pop off easily, and you are a few screws away from having the speakers out. This adds up to 8 pounds.
The cruise control unit and attached throttle cable are next. The bracket that holds the throttle cable is also used to hold the coolant overflow reservoir. Remove the CC unit, then take the bracket out. A torch, sawzall, and grinder come in handy here. Cut off the part of the bracket that holds the CC unit and grind the edges smooth. I also used a can of black spray paint to repaint the bracket. It looks super clean, even factory if you take your time. CC unit, bracket, and throttle cable weigh 3.6 pounds.
A hard top is a good way to save weight, but there's a way to save more weight and still have a convertible. Remove the A/C lines, solenoid, compressor, and compressor bracket. Then, take out the motor for the convertible top. You will have a manual soft top and no A/C, which will be far more weight savings than you could ever get with a hard top.
The popular intake, test pipe, exhaust combination not only adds whp, sound, and throttle response, it's also useful for removing weight from the entire car. The stock airbox weighs 10 pounds. The K&N short ram weighs about 1.5. Much better sound and throttle response along with 8.5 pounds of weight reduction.
The stock AP1 exhaust weighs in at 64.2 pounds. It also makes the S2000 sound like an Odyssey below 5,000RPM. Any single, non-resonated exhaust paired with a test pipe will give you lots of gains and at least 45 pounds of weight reduction. A JDM titanium header back exhaust can weigh as little as 8-10 pounds. My exhaust is a custom 3" header back that weighs 15 pounds. I gained 12whp and lost 50 pounds, not bad at all. My car also sounds like a 350Z below VTEC and an Indy car above 5,800RPM
Also, anybody that says our car has a hi-flow cat from the factory have never looked through one. I'm sure a 12" by 3" cylinder of dense honeycomb is real good at achieving optimum exhaust gas velocity, right? This piece of tree-hugging junk is also pretty hefty. Unless you live in Cali, the cat is one of the first things you should be yanking off your car. Also, Comptech makes a handy fix for the secondary O2 sensor.
A steering wheel is an often overlooked part that can save weight and change the way your car behaves. The smaller the steering wheel, the more responsive the steering will be. I have a 320mm NRG wheel, with a Momo hub. You will be shocked at how much the steering wheel with the airbag weighs. Total weight reduction from steering wheel and hub is 3.2 pounds.
Now we're getting to the fun stuff. Time to pick out baby's first set of shoes
The stock AP1 rims are fairly heavy, and as long as you go with a quality JDM wheel, it won't be tough to reduce a lot of weight here. The most important thing about wheels is that decreasing rotating mass is equivalent to reducing 4 times the weight. If your wheels are 10 pounds lighter per set, it is equivalent to a weight reduction of 40 pounds. Also, you can now mount some nice fat rubber on those rears so they really hook up. Volk LE28/CE28 are a good choice. I went with black w/a polished lip. The 17x9 rears weigh in at 14 pounds each. The 17x7.5 fronts are only 13 pounds each. Stock AP1 rim weight is 17.5 pounds each for the front and 18.6 pounds each for the rear. Don't bust out your calculators, I did the math for you. 18.2 pounds of rotating mass reduced, which is equivalent to 72.8 pounds of weight reduction! Not to mention the front tires are now as big as the OEM rears were, and you can mount much larger tires on the rear. This setup helps launches, acceleration, braking, cornering, everything. Not bad for one mod.
Now that step 2 is well underway, you can either continue down that path or add some JDM, uber baller, super light weight dry carbon bling. ASM, Amuse, Top Secret, J's racing, and C-West (just to name a few) make dry carbon hoods that have functional vents and weigh next to nothing. Steer away from companies like Seibon. The hoods don't fit as well and 90% of the time they're actually HEAVIER than stock. I went with a company called C-Wings. They produce loads of carbon fiber products for the S2000, and I wanted to see the weight, fit and finish of their carbon hood before I sunk any big money into their products. The hood fits great, looks even better, and weighs only 15.8 pounds. The stock hood weighs somewhere between 21-22 pounds (it's kind of tough to fit it perfectly on a scale). Let's just say 5 pounds of weight reduction.
Other than the wheels and a little elbow grease, most of this can be done for around $2,000. Add in the hood and wheels, it's a little over $6,000. However, you have now drastically changed the power to weight ratio and also made the car more responsive in every aspect. Not bad for 2 G's and some time in the garage.
Total Weight Reduction to date:
Trunk gutted -50lbs.
Pass. seat -33lbs.
Radio + Speakers -8lbs.
CC unit, bracket, and throttle cable -3.6lbs.
Intake -8.5lbs.
Exhaust -50lbs.
Steering Wheel -3.2lbs.
Rims -18.2lbs. --> 72.8lbs. effective
CF Hood -5lbs.
A/C lines, solenoid, compressor, bracket - 23.6lbs.
The curb weight is now 2,551.3 pounds, and the crank horsepower is (give or take a few) 260hp. The power to weight ratio has gone from 11.7 pounds per horsepower to 9.8 pounds per horsepower. That is definitely a noticeable improvement.
EDIT: If you give me crap about this post b/c the car can't be daily driven any more, you're an idiot. I didn't post it in S2000 talk because it belongs in S2000 RACING AND COMPETITION. I don't know how many other ways I can say it but this forum is not about driving your S to the grocery store! It's about tracking your car, which if you are serious, involves finding as many ways as humanly possible to ditch weight. I'm keeping a full interior because it's not a STRICTLY track car, and I don't want to look like one of those guys in a 93 civic hatch with just a driver's seat in it parked at the mall. Anybody that says "how can you drive a car on the street with no radio?" needs to go post in freaking S2000 talk and leave this forum to people like me who drive their car on the track.
The curb weight of a MY00 off the showroom floor is 2,809 pounds. To reach my goal, I had 300 pounds to carve away from the car. Seem challenging? The curb weight of the C-West S2000 is a little over 2200 pounds (without fuel or driver). If they can take 600 pounds off, I can take 300 pounds off. There are 3 steps to weight reduction.
1. Remove unnecessary parts
2. Replace parts with lighter versions
3. Replace steel and aluminum body panels with carbon fiber
For step one, there are tons of things on the car that can go. First of all, gut the trunk. I removed the tool kit, spare tire, and all trunk carpeting and sound proofing material. This takes away nearly 50 pounds!
For all of you who have nagging wives/girlfriends/hookup buddies, or friends who like to bum rides, this is the best mod out there. The passenger seat with rails weighs 33 pounds. The fatass sitting in it weighs a lot more than that on most occasions. The rear seat rail bolts are 14mm and the front bolts are 12mm. The first time you take the seats out, it will take some torque to get those bolts loose. This is something quick and easy that you can do on a track day or group drive where you'll be by yourself.
The next thing that can go is the factory radio and speakers. To do this, you will need to unscrew the 2 panels where the driver's right knee and passenger's left knee would rest. Then pop off the front panel and start unscrewing things. The door panels pop off easily, and you are a few screws away from having the speakers out. This adds up to 8 pounds.
The cruise control unit and attached throttle cable are next. The bracket that holds the throttle cable is also used to hold the coolant overflow reservoir. Remove the CC unit, then take the bracket out. A torch, sawzall, and grinder come in handy here. Cut off the part of the bracket that holds the CC unit and grind the edges smooth. I also used a can of black spray paint to repaint the bracket. It looks super clean, even factory if you take your time. CC unit, bracket, and throttle cable weigh 3.6 pounds.
A hard top is a good way to save weight, but there's a way to save more weight and still have a convertible. Remove the A/C lines, solenoid, compressor, and compressor bracket. Then, take out the motor for the convertible top. You will have a manual soft top and no A/C, which will be far more weight savings than you could ever get with a hard top.
The popular intake, test pipe, exhaust combination not only adds whp, sound, and throttle response, it's also useful for removing weight from the entire car. The stock airbox weighs 10 pounds. The K&N short ram weighs about 1.5. Much better sound and throttle response along with 8.5 pounds of weight reduction.
The stock AP1 exhaust weighs in at 64.2 pounds. It also makes the S2000 sound like an Odyssey below 5,000RPM. Any single, non-resonated exhaust paired with a test pipe will give you lots of gains and at least 45 pounds of weight reduction. A JDM titanium header back exhaust can weigh as little as 8-10 pounds. My exhaust is a custom 3" header back that weighs 15 pounds. I gained 12whp and lost 50 pounds, not bad at all. My car also sounds like a 350Z below VTEC and an Indy car above 5,800RPM
Also, anybody that says our car has a hi-flow cat from the factory have never looked through one. I'm sure a 12" by 3" cylinder of dense honeycomb is real good at achieving optimum exhaust gas velocity, right? This piece of tree-hugging junk is also pretty hefty. Unless you live in Cali, the cat is one of the first things you should be yanking off your car. Also, Comptech makes a handy fix for the secondary O2 sensor. A steering wheel is an often overlooked part that can save weight and change the way your car behaves. The smaller the steering wheel, the more responsive the steering will be. I have a 320mm NRG wheel, with a Momo hub. You will be shocked at how much the steering wheel with the airbag weighs. Total weight reduction from steering wheel and hub is 3.2 pounds.
Now we're getting to the fun stuff. Time to pick out baby's first set of shoes
The stock AP1 rims are fairly heavy, and as long as you go with a quality JDM wheel, it won't be tough to reduce a lot of weight here. The most important thing about wheels is that decreasing rotating mass is equivalent to reducing 4 times the weight. If your wheels are 10 pounds lighter per set, it is equivalent to a weight reduction of 40 pounds. Also, you can now mount some nice fat rubber on those rears so they really hook up. Volk LE28/CE28 are a good choice. I went with black w/a polished lip. The 17x9 rears weigh in at 14 pounds each. The 17x7.5 fronts are only 13 pounds each. Stock AP1 rim weight is 17.5 pounds each for the front and 18.6 pounds each for the rear. Don't bust out your calculators, I did the math for you. 18.2 pounds of rotating mass reduced, which is equivalent to 72.8 pounds of weight reduction! Not to mention the front tires are now as big as the OEM rears were, and you can mount much larger tires on the rear. This setup helps launches, acceleration, braking, cornering, everything. Not bad for one mod. Now that step 2 is well underway, you can either continue down that path or add some JDM, uber baller, super light weight dry carbon bling. ASM, Amuse, Top Secret, J's racing, and C-West (just to name a few) make dry carbon hoods that have functional vents and weigh next to nothing. Steer away from companies like Seibon. The hoods don't fit as well and 90% of the time they're actually HEAVIER than stock. I went with a company called C-Wings. They produce loads of carbon fiber products for the S2000, and I wanted to see the weight, fit and finish of their carbon hood before I sunk any big money into their products. The hood fits great, looks even better, and weighs only 15.8 pounds. The stock hood weighs somewhere between 21-22 pounds (it's kind of tough to fit it perfectly on a scale). Let's just say 5 pounds of weight reduction.
Other than the wheels and a little elbow grease, most of this can be done for around $2,000. Add in the hood and wheels, it's a little over $6,000. However, you have now drastically changed the power to weight ratio and also made the car more responsive in every aspect. Not bad for 2 G's and some time in the garage.
Total Weight Reduction to date:
Trunk gutted -50lbs.
Pass. seat -33lbs.
Radio + Speakers -8lbs.
CC unit, bracket, and throttle cable -3.6lbs.
Intake -8.5lbs.
Exhaust -50lbs.
Steering Wheel -3.2lbs.
Rims -18.2lbs. --> 72.8lbs. effective
CF Hood -5lbs.
A/C lines, solenoid, compressor, bracket - 23.6lbs.
The curb weight is now 2,551.3 pounds, and the crank horsepower is (give or take a few) 260hp. The power to weight ratio has gone from 11.7 pounds per horsepower to 9.8 pounds per horsepower. That is definitely a noticeable improvement.
EDIT: If you give me crap about this post b/c the car can't be daily driven any more, you're an idiot. I didn't post it in S2000 talk because it belongs in S2000 RACING AND COMPETITION. I don't know how many other ways I can say it but this forum is not about driving your S to the grocery store! It's about tracking your car, which if you are serious, involves finding as many ways as humanly possible to ditch weight. I'm keeping a full interior because it's not a STRICTLY track car, and I don't want to look like one of those guys in a 93 civic hatch with just a driver's seat in it parked at the mall. Anybody that says "how can you drive a car on the street with no radio?" needs to go post in freaking S2000 talk and leave this forum to people like me who drive their car on the track.
The following 6 users liked this post by toofast4yalll:
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MugenK20 (03-03-2022),
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and 1 others liked this post.
07-16-2007, 10:48 AM
#2
thats an awesome write up
it lets you see the cheap ways to remove weight, and the expensive ways as well
kinda makes me want to go catless now too..
some of the things seem a little silly to replace unless you're going all the way:
hood, steering wheel, cc, radio
but either way, i appreciate it
it lets you see the cheap ways to remove weight, and the expensive ways as well
kinda makes me want to go catless now too..
some of the things seem a little silly to replace unless you're going all the way:
hood, steering wheel, cc, radio
but either way, i appreciate it
07-16-2007, 11:16 AM
#3
Registered User
Yah, that's great, you'll have car that is lighter and faster on the track, but, now you have a car that is also miserable to drive on the street. The NVH has gone to hell. You'll be fine with the race car like noise for a while, but inevitably you'll realize you took a car that was a perfect balance of a good street and track car, and now turned it into one that only belongs on the track.
That's the conclusion I came to anyway.
That's the conclusion I came to anyway.
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rush2redline (11-19-2020)
07-16-2007, 11:38 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
I drive my car to work and everywhere else I go as long as it isn't raining or snowing. I used CC once or twice in 6 months, so I figured that would be a good thing to remove. By the time you turned the radio and (awful) speakers up loud enough to hear them over the exhaust, you couldn't hear yourself think. Rather than spend the money and extra weight on a real sound system that would be audible over a 3" exhaust, I decided to save the money and the weight and take it out. It's like that commercial, my symphony is 4 cylinders playing whatever tune my right foot tells them to
edit: This is the "Racing and Competition" forum, right? If it were the "I daily drive my S" forum, I wouldn't have posted this write-up.
edit: This is the "Racing and Competition" forum, right? If it were the "I daily drive my S" forum, I wouldn't have posted this write-up.
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MugenK20 (03-03-2022)
07-16-2007, 12:36 PM
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Nice write up man, good to see a comprehensive list of things you can do to reduce weight. Questions: How much weight would you lose if you dithced the soft top and went HT? and Do you know if aftermarket brake calipers and rotors as well as coil overs save weight? I have heard some guys ditch the factory rear bar...how much does that thing weigh?
07-16-2007, 01:21 PM
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I think you need to check you're math. You lost 53lbs in exhaust, but you added a 15lb exhaust back. I'd only believe the weight after you put it on scales. And using effective weight, while true, is complete BS, especially when you calculate hp/weight. If my wheels weighted nothing...
Bill
FYI my Supercharged, completely stripped S2000 racecar weighs a true 2492 with a full cage and 3/4 tank of gas.
Bill
FYI my Supercharged, completely stripped S2000 racecar weighs a true 2492 with a full cage and 3/4 tank of gas.
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07-16-2007, 01:44 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
No, the stock exhaust weighs 68 pounds. I could've taken pictures of every stock and aftermarket item on my scale, but then I wouldn't have had the time to do this write-up. FWIW every OEM and aftermarket part in my write-up was weighed on a scale. I checked all OEM part weights with official weights listed online to make sure my scale was accurate. I wasn't off my more than .2 pounds on any one item. Your car at 2492, while completely stripped, has a cage, supercharger, aftercooler, and 3/4 tank of gas that you have to account for. That same car would weigh in under 2400 pounds if it was NA, without the roll cage, and on E. Curb weight is usually measured without gas, so I am not counting gas weight either.
SlipAngle79 - The only brakes I know of that would reduce weight are the Spoon monoblock calipers for the front. Stock brakes on this car work so well I'm not going to change them any time soon. Most coilovers are lighter than stock, but I don't know exactly how much. The factory soft top and motor weigh 78 pounds (I believe that number has been posted by many reputable sources). The Spoon mooncraft top for example weighs 29.5 pounds. OEM hard top is around 44lbs. Mugen is around 34lbs. Basically, even the heavy OEM hard top is a huge improvement in weight over the soft top and motor.
SlipAngle79 - The only brakes I know of that would reduce weight are the Spoon monoblock calipers for the front. Stock brakes on this car work so well I'm not going to change them any time soon. Most coilovers are lighter than stock, but I don't know exactly how much. The factory soft top and motor weigh 78 pounds (I believe that number has been posted by many reputable sources). The Spoon mooncraft top for example weighs 29.5 pounds. OEM hard top is around 44lbs. Mugen is around 34lbs. Basically, even the heavy OEM hard top is a huge improvement in weight over the soft top and motor.
