Track pads and tires
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,210
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From: WA
In my most recent event I tried new brake pads and new tires with great success. 
I have experimented with both in the past with mixed results and finally went with the advice of experienced drivers and am very happy that I did.
Put new Carbotech Panther Plus pads on fresh cryo
I have experimented with both in the past with mixed results and finally went with the advice of experienced drivers and am very happy that I did.Put new Carbotech Panther Plus pads on fresh cryo
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 302
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From: CA
I don't know about the Kumho's but I do have something to add concerning the pads.
I have been using the Carbotech Panther Plus pads for a couple of weeks now mounted with no anti-squeak shims, with no anti-squeak grease, and with stock brake lines and Castrol SRF brake fluid. So here are my comments on street driving with this setup:
I really like the pads, good stop, no fade, no ABS issues, and no wear issues. However, I do see dusting and I do get squeak, at least at times. For easy driving dusting is not an issue, but for sporty and very sporty driving, I get dust and sometimes a lot of dust. The dust is easy to clean off however, a water spray removes most of it and a soapy rag cleans the remainder. I also waxed the wheels but I don't think that helps too much, the dust is very easy to remove from unwaxed wheels.
Concerning squeaks, I would say that on the majority, but not all, of my stops I get squeaks. Squeaks occur with cold, warm and hot brakes, but are worse with hot brakes. Many squeaks are quiet, but especially when the brakes are hot, some squeaks can be loud. My wife at first told me that no street brakes should sound like that, but I told her that the noise was normal for high performance pads. She can hear me drive up to our home. But I like it this way - it feels like I have real brakes. So far I have not gotten a ticket for noise. Maybe there would be less squeak if I were to reinstall the shims.
One more comment about pad bedding. During my initial bedding on my local freeway I got a strong burning smell. I think this smell was due to the pads themselves and maybe due to some of the anti-squeak grease burning off. Since the bedding cool-off period, I have had no repeat smells.
I have some track days scheduled in the next couple of months so I will know more then.
I have been using the Carbotech Panther Plus pads for a couple of weeks now mounted with no anti-squeak shims, with no anti-squeak grease, and with stock brake lines and Castrol SRF brake fluid. So here are my comments on street driving with this setup:
I really like the pads, good stop, no fade, no ABS issues, and no wear issues. However, I do see dusting and I do get squeak, at least at times. For easy driving dusting is not an issue, but for sporty and very sporty driving, I get dust and sometimes a lot of dust. The dust is easy to clean off however, a water spray removes most of it and a soapy rag cleans the remainder. I also waxed the wheels but I don't think that helps too much, the dust is very easy to remove from unwaxed wheels.
Concerning squeaks, I would say that on the majority, but not all, of my stops I get squeaks. Squeaks occur with cold, warm and hot brakes, but are worse with hot brakes. Many squeaks are quiet, but especially when the brakes are hot, some squeaks can be loud. My wife at first told me that no street brakes should sound like that, but I told her that the noise was normal for high performance pads. She can hear me drive up to our home. But I like it this way - it feels like I have real brakes. So far I have not gotten a ticket for noise.
Maybe there would be less squeak if I were to reinstall the shims.One more comment about pad bedding. During my initial bedding on my local freeway I got a strong burning smell. I think this smell was due to the pads themselves and maybe due to some of the anti-squeak grease burning off. Since the bedding cool-off period, I have had no repeat smells.
I have some track days scheduled in the next couple of months so I will know more then.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Boulder
Great info, Chris.
I spent my first weekend with Panther Plus's / A032R's / Earl's lines / ATE super blue combo.
Ton's more fun than stock S02's with R4S's. Ultra-controllable oversteer and drifts, awesome stops with no fade, none of the front end skittering I always seemed to fight with the S02's and narrower fronts. I still wish I had about 50 more HP, however. I hate having some supercharged SVO Mustang or 3.4L Porsche out-power me down the straights...
I'd be curious how the Kuhmo's do vs. the A032's. If it is as much of a difference as the Yoko's are from the S02's, there is still a ton of untapped potential in the car!
I spent my first weekend with Panther Plus's / A032R's / Earl's lines / ATE super blue combo.
Ton's more fun than stock S02's with R4S's. Ultra-controllable oversteer and drifts, awesome stops with no fade, none of the front end skittering I always seemed to fight with the S02's and narrower fronts. I still wish I had about 50 more HP, however. I hate having some supercharged SVO Mustang or 3.4L Porsche out-power me down the straights...
I'd be curious how the Kuhmo's do vs. the A032's. If it is as much of a difference as the Yoko's are from the S02's, there is still a ton of untapped potential in the car!
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: San Diego
Chris,
200 miles (even one-way, wasn't clear whether that was total) on the Kuhmos is sure putting a lot of perhaps unnecessary wear on them. Have you thought about a trailer? Airgate, Mack and myself are among those who use them. In the SouthSports model Mack & I have, there's plenty of room for your tires and a good-sized (45 w x 18 h x 18 d) toolbox, as well. You may not want to spend that kind of money, in which case Airgate might be able to give you some advice on putting one together like his. (I'm pretty sure Airgate is the one who has a trailer built up from a chassis available commercially.)
Towing the trailer, I cruise very comfortably at 75 mph and haven't experienced any problems. It's easy to forget the trailer's even there.
The point being, at the cost of V700s, you could save the price of a set pretty quickly with a suitable trailer. Or to put it another way, the money you saved on tires would quickly pay for the trailer.
cal
200 miles (even one-way, wasn't clear whether that was total) on the Kuhmos is sure putting a lot of perhaps unnecessary wear on them. Have you thought about a trailer? Airgate, Mack and myself are among those who use them. In the SouthSports model Mack & I have, there's plenty of room for your tires and a good-sized (45 w x 18 h x 18 d) toolbox, as well. You may not want to spend that kind of money, in which case Airgate might be able to give you some advice on putting one together like his. (I'm pretty sure Airgate is the one who has a trailer built up from a chassis available commercially.)
Towing the trailer, I cruise very comfortably at 75 mph and haven't experienced any problems. It's easy to forget the trailer's even there.
The point being, at the cost of V700s, you could save the price of a set pretty quickly with a suitable trailer. Or to put it another way, the money you saved on tires would quickly pay for the trailer.
cal
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 302
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From: CA
Hi pfb,
I understand the converse to be true.
ATE is so so, definitely more fade prone than some others, at least in Porsche applications.
Motul is explicitly not recommended by a Brembo tech who I talked to concerning this subject. I suspect that Motul suffers from exactly the problems that you state, as well as possibly others.
Castrol SRF is the only fluid recommended by Brembo for their S2000 Gran Turismo brake system. SRF is significantly more tolerant to water than all of the other products.
See this link for more info on fluids.
pdf, your post is gone, what happened?
I understand the converse to be true.
ATE is so so, definitely more fade prone than some others, at least in Porsche applications.
Motul is explicitly not recommended by a Brembo tech who I talked to concerning this subject. I suspect that Motul suffers from exactly the problems that you state, as well as possibly others.
Castrol SRF is the only fluid recommended by Brembo for their S2000 Gran Turismo brake system. SRF is significantly more tolerant to water than all of the other products.
See this link for more info on fluids.
pdf, your post is gone, what happened?
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 302
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From: CA
No Allan I have not. My car is brand new and my local track won't let me run test days without full safety equipment. I have to wait for a open club day.
CDelena I agree on the fluid, if it works it works, spending more is just throwing it away. I know of someone who has driven Kumho's on the street for years and seemed to like them a lot. The only reason he doesn't now is that they don't offer an 18" size. I also agree relative to hot laps the highway miles is nothing wear-wise.
CDelena I agree on the fluid, if it works it works, spending more is just throwing it away. I know of someone who has driven Kumho's on the street for years and seemed to like them a lot. The only reason he doesn't now is that they don't offer an 18" size. I also agree relative to hot laps the highway miles is nothing wear-wise.