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edit: new CEL (P0411) error and how to fix it -- 16 Jan
edit: jerrypeterson's hood tip added
Introduction
after all the help that people like doc, xviper, modifry have given, i think it's my turn to try to give back to this wonderful community that has done so much for me and others. i'm doing this not because this information already isn't here (cuz it is), but instead to consolidate all that i've found into one thread. i also am sure i'll have to make a few revisions since i'll forget a few things.
in addition, i named the thread appropriately because i've been working on cars for a total of 6 months now. before i owned my S, i didn't even know how to change the oil! no. i'm not kidding.
it's a new hobby, and i'm loving it, but i by no means am a good mechanic. instead, i'm maticulous and paranoid so i spend hours upon hours reading here and learning from the mistakes and successes of others.
i'm bolding the different categories of information so if you'd already done a lot of research on your own, you'll know where to stop, and unfortunately, i didn't have a camera to take any shots so it's all text. and finally, i'll leave it to the powers that be to decide if this thread is worthy of addition to the sticky FAQ for UTH.
it's also worth mentioning that i'm writing this from the perspective of a buyer of a comptech supercharger with aftercooler kit.
Why a supercharger instead of turbo?
here's how it was explained to me. turbos create phenomenal power all through the band and can easily overtake a sc'ed car; however, the extra strain on the engine will shorten its life, and this is already a hell of an investment.
on the other hand, most of the boost on a sc'ed car is only created on the higher RPM range so basically, it's up to you of how much extra strain you want to put on your engine. if you want to VTEC it at every light, feel free. if you only want to reserve that kind of power for the poor lil punk with the folders can for a muffler, then you'll be straining your engine much less.
and one more thing. turbos require much more tuning than a sc'ed car which is basically a plug 'n play method.
why Comptech over Vortech?
i ain't touching that with a 10' pole. why my personal choice of comptech? as far as i'm aware, it's less invasive. no drilling your oil pan. and comptech deals primarily (maybe exclusively .. not sure) with hondas so they know them in and out. of course, you're going to pay more for the kit, but such is life.
and one more thing. for those hesitant in doing such a huge mod on their car, good for you. you should be a little frightened, but you're not alone. i don't have any experience with vortech, but when it comes to helping you hunt down issues, comptech's techs are all about it! shad helped me over the phone fix a CEL in less than 24 hours just by my verbal description and a picture. not only did he know what he was talking about, but he actually cared. compound that with the multitude of people you have here that are willing to pass their knowledge, and you're set.
what kind of power am i looking at after the install?
hehe ohhh ... you poor, poor person. it's no longer the same car with FI. in fact, the first time you really gun it, you're probably going to scare yourself a bit ... which is really cool. and i'd suggest looking up modifry on the boards here and getting one of his shift beepers. it's hard enough to react quick enough to change gears even with it. without it, i'd bounce off the delimiter every time. basically, the install is worth every one of those cuss words you'll be using during the install. every. and more.
is there any other gear I should install before or after the sc?
well, that's really up to you in most cases. what i'd suggest is if you're in a hot climate like i am (Arizona), you might look into getting one range colder plugs -- IK24's for me, gapped to .035". it's debatable, but many have said that during the hot summer the car stays responsive through the heat. in my case, i had also changed out the exhaust and the header in preparation for the install (toda header and comptech exhaust but every to their own).
essentially, you need no other gear other than what comptech sends you for your install. there's always extras that you may WANT to do but nothing required.
what tools and supplies will i need handy for this install?
there's several. i'm not going to hit all of them, but instead those that you may not have in a small garage:
19mm deep socket
(prob 1/2" end) -- for crank pulley
crank pulley tool
it's basically a 50mm nut on the end of a long bar and is used to hold your crank pulley still while you undo the bolt. if you can't make one (and many have) or borrow one from a local dealership (which in my experience most are pricks), then i'd suggest ordering one from here. they had it to me in a few days and it was priced great. don't worry about it saying it's for 1.5, 1.6, and 1.8L engines. it works on the S2000 as well.
i also plan to keep mine in my garage for any members to borrow. i think $5/week is more than reasonable. i will ask for a deposit first, and then i'll mail it off. after i get it back, i'll send you back your money minus $5. seeing that i couldn't find anyone on the boards that had done such a thing, i thought it would be a nice service to have.
Torque Wrench
you'll be torquing from 50 in-lbs to 181 ft-lbs (yes ... ft-lbs). most of the smaller, hard to get to nuts, i didn't use a torque wrench on, but i did everywhere else just to be on the safe side.
Wrenches of all sizes
they'll come in handy and a few that come to size are 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 19mm.
6" socket extension
no explanation needed.
Oil and Oil Filter
you'll be draining. no way around it. might as well change it all out while you're at it. i'm a fan of the K & N filter (HP-1004) and amsoil 10w30 oil.
Red Line Water Wetter and distilled water
this is for filling your aftercooler after your install is finished.
Wire cutters/strippers
and when you're done with those strippers, send a few my way. free lap dances for everyone!!!
4' cheater bar
this is for the end of your breaker bar during your crank pulley removal. believe me .. if all you have is a hollow fence pole, use it. you'll see why if you keep reading.
what if i can't find that crank pulley tool?
i specifically bring this up cuz this one tool held up my install by a week. you need it (or a home made one), and let me explain why. even after we got the tool, it was me on one side of the car and my partner on the other. i had both of my hands and all my weight holding the crank pulley in place with my partner torquing the bolt with a breaker bar and a 4' cheater bar. for reference, it was so long, it could only be done at an angle to avoid hitting the hood. even with all this torque, it broke my breaker bar (now unuseable) and even bent the cheater bar which is some strong arse metal!! i'm guessing it was between 350-450 ft-lbs to loosen.
and one more thing. make sure that you have something sitting down on the side of the car that the bolt is being torque on. if you don't, as soon as the bolt pops loose, it's going down right on the side of your car, and it ain't going to be pretty. what did i have? my friend's arm and he was about to cry after it hit. i calmed him down with a few beers.
how long should i expect it to take?
well, if you've never done it before, it'll be a while. for me, it was 30 hours of work. 30 hours? you gotta be kidding, right? well, 15 hours of that was me by myself. see ... i'm the smart guy who knows everything for the install but lack the experience under the hood for much of the harder to get to bolts and such. without my mechanic partner, i was slow as grandma.
we worked 10 hours one night, then i continued on it the next day alone for 10, then he was back on the 3rd day after i had already started to help me finish.
i'd guess it would have been 20 hours if he had been there the entire time. if i had to do it again we could probably do it in 12 for both the sc and ac.
why not just take it to a shop to get done?
few reasons. first, it helps you learn the car. it's through fixing or breaking things that you learn the most. second, the shop was going to charge me $500 simply for the sc kit. prob $700 or $800 for sc and ac.
general sc install tips[list=1]
[*]always read through the instructions thoroughly a few times so when you look under the hood, it all makes sense.
[*]Use a friend, esp if he has experience under the hood. he can double check you to make sure you're not making any mistakes. it helps if it's the same friend throughout.
[*]be prepared for the car to be down for a while (3 days for me but we were working slow and not all day), or if you're anything like me, your wife is going to be down your throat for having to borrow her truck.
[*]take your time with the vacuum hoses. it's VERY easy to get confused and install them incorrectly. if you do the right the first time, you're golden.
[*]on vacuum hoses, don't connect them tight til you're finished. put them where they should go to avoid confusion, but there's no doubt you'll want to route them properly once you see how the sc and ac sit.
[*]keep ALL your parts, stock or otherwise, during and after your install. they may come in handy later.
[*]in the helm manual, it explains how to prop the hood so it's all near vertical. this is especially helpful for more wrenchng room when you have to remove the crank pulley -- tip courtesy of jerrypeterson.[/list=1]
specific sc with ac tips[list=1]
[*]my original plan was to install the sc, drive it around a bit, recover from so much time in the shop, THEN install the ac kit. you can't. you're missing one very important part (a big arse tube) that is replaced by the ac kit. now, i thought i had prepared for everything, but i wasn't ready for that.
[*]because of the above, the install will be slightly modified from the instructions when you get to one of the last steps. instead of switching over to the ac install, finish out the sc instructions (there's still the fuel pump to do), check that install, THEN move to the ac kit install.
[*]on the sc step where you attach the new FPR, do all the work but do not reattach it to the side of the car. it'll save you some time since you'll need that out of the way to route a wire through the firewall that you do during the ac install.
[*]here's the good news. because you ordered the sc w/ ac, there's no having to adjust the snail for the ac. it's already done for you at comptech. God bless 'em! that right there (which i hear is a complete PITA) was enough to make up for the lack of the tube. [/list=1]
problems during my install[list=1]
[*]i've heard many run into issue with fit of the air box. comptech fixed that problem, but you still have to push down on the air box hard while you're screwing it down to ensure no clearance issues. just be careful. that bolt only can take so much torque.
[*]on the air box, be careful not to cross thread the screw on the cf cover. it's easy to do since the tube to the blower tends to push the it over and misalign it.
[*]now, this tip ... both of us were 9 hours into the first day and tired, but that little aluminum tab with the threads on it. it goes INSIDE the frame of the car so that screw that goes through the hole has something to bite on. it took us forever to figure that out.
[*]you're going to fight and fight putting the ac on the blower and to the engine. it's a tight fit (which is good so you don't have leaks). we found that using a small wrench with the open end lifting the rubber piece and pushing them on then made things a bit easier. just don't scratch your new sc and ac.
[*]getting to the fuel pump ... well, it's just gonna suck. there's no way around it. if you have a small guy like myself around, you may be in luck since he may be able to fit in that tight lil area where your top goes down. got a kid? put him to work!
[*]you may get a leak of fuel from the banjo bolt. no only may you have to tighten the banjo bolt, but the nut on the hose as well.[/list=1]
CHECK ENGINE LIGHT!! NOOOO!! this was my last nightmare of the install. the CEL scares the piss out of me. don't like it. don't wanna see it. cuz it could be anything. i left this last problem we had for last so i could expand on it.
when we first started the car, the CEL was on. it came on as soon as the ignition was on, which i thought was odd. we could not figure out for the life of us why! it started up fine, idle seemed ok, we couldn't find any leaks anywhere. so my guess was the ESM splices we made near the ECU. i was right. we took the crimps that come on the blue and green wire (map sensor) and stripped the wires, put them together, taped it up, and voila! all gone ... almost.
the next morning, it showed up again after we had already driven around so i thought it might be something else. on my way home from work, it drove fine as i was driving like a granny, but i stopped by autozone to have them run the code. it came up P0171 ... running lean. well, i thought maybe i had knocked the ESM wires loose or something so that night, i went home and took the insulation off the power and ground wires and crimped them, taping them back up and putting it some place where i couldn't get to it. i was right. it fixed it, and all is well. in another words, there's lots of wires down there. take your time and do it right, and if you have the equipment, i'd STRONGLY suggest sodering it cuz it'll be worth saving the headache cuz those crimps just don't do it for me.
and not 24 hours after i posted this, another CEL. this one came up with a P0170 (another running lean) which will be fixed with some sodering to ensure good connections between the MAP, ECU, and ESM. the other was P0411 which is incorrect air flow something or other. the answer is courtesy of shad at comptech who surprised me by figuring it out from a pic. pure genius.
in any case, if you look at step #4 on the SC install where you do many of the hose connections, you'll find the air control solenoid valve. pay attention to which way it is mounted cuz there is an up and a down (the wiring should go on the bottom). now, why this caused a problem was not because of its orientation but because we mounted it incorrectly AND put the hoses on according to the diagram. in another words, they were upside down. it's a tight fit to change around the hoses so be sure to do it right the first time.
also, this mistake would do no damage to your engine or the sc. it instead creates an emissions problem, and we all need less depleted ozone.
conclusion
ok ... all done. i hope you learned a little something cuz my fingers are wore out. this install is daunting, but if you are maticulous, you can do it. why? cuz i can and remember ... this is sc install for dummies. i might be book smart, but ripping out stuff under the hood scares the piss out of me and other than small time work only on my S, i'd never undertaken something so big. even my partner marty who has worked on older cars was a little hesitant since he'd never worked on high tech hondas. but it was worth every bit since i learned much more about my car and can take satisfaction in the fact that it is my own hands (and those of my lovely assistant marty who worked for beer and wife jennifer) that did the work.
if you have any questions or see any mistakes, let me know. i'm sure i'll have to adjust some info.
The Helms manual depicts a proceedure to prop the hood in a near 90 degree verticle position. A breaker bar will easily fit in the engine bay and this will provide much more wrenching room.
good call, jerry. i wasn't aware of that. if it's all the same, i'm going to edit my post with that tip, along with another CEL issue i just got fixed today.
Wortham, congrats on this one! Didn't realize you were car illiterate like me (my first mod was the AEM V1 and it took me about 8 hours, mostly figuring out how NOT to do things...). I'm really impressed that you accomplished this on your own... saved some bucks and learned a lot. At some point, I WILL be going FI, just a matter of when (when my warranty runs out, when I can convince the wife to let me spend $6K on the car, etc.).
Question for you: I know you're running VAFC now. Is this required, or can the stock ECU handle the A/F ratio adjustment?
Have yet to meet you but looking forward to seeing the car. Definitely the nicest one in the club, IMHO. Perhaps if the AZ guys push Kartchner to April I will be able to drive. And I EXPECT a RIDE in your bad-a$$ machine!
thanks, bro. 4.77's and reinf. diff. go in the 15th of march at basch's. i won't touch that one myself. wwwaayyy too complex.
i had no problems with the ECU handling everything fine, although i did have some issues wiring in my ESM. all was well after i soldered it in.
here's a pic of my VAFC for all to see. i was planning on doing a short write up when i pulled up the console again. it turned out to be very easy. the hard part was mounting it so it was the right height and stable.
01-15-2004, 04:19 PM
why my personal choice of comptech? as far as i'm aware, it's less invasive. no drilling your oil pan. and comptech deals primarily (maybe exclusively .. not sure) with hondas so they know them in and out. of course, you're going to pay more for the kit, but such is life.
