Hi everyone...

Spoon Sports used to market a product called:

Secondary Final Gear Set - S2000 - AP1 - Part # 23200-AP1-000



I looked into the S2000 Service Manual and it look like we are talking about a custom "Secondary Shaft".

So it's meant to be installed inside the manual transmission block.

The "stock" Honda Secondary Shaft for AP1 is 25:29.

The Spoon one instead is marked as 24:31.

I guess we are talking about approx. 4% reduction (not sure though).

It used to retail for a wopping Yen 182,000 + 5% japanese tax.

Now it seems like Spoon has discountinued this (not anymore on their new website products line up) and replaced it with a more "traditional" Final Gear Set (countershaft + ring gear) marked as 4.4 (ratio).

Spoon part number: 41220-AP1-000 Price: Yen 102,900 (Yen 98,000 w/out tax).



This one goes into the differential housing not into the transmission (just like J's Racing and others).

So.. we have two different products... same goal .. reduce of approx. 4 / 4.4 % the ratio.

What are the advantages of this first approach (reduce gear inside the manual transmission box) over the second one.. (reduce ratio inside the differential) ??

Can they work together ??

Ok, i wait for your tech advice.

Regards, Carlo

 

It's a lot easier to replace the final gear inside the diff. Otherwise you have to disassembly and re-assebmbly the whole gearbox. Also there is a diffrence in price between those 2 items (ring-pinion is cheaper) and the labour! ATS also discontinued the old secondary axle and released the classic final gear.

 

OK, those are good points to explain why maybe many vendors have switched to the ring/pinion solution.. I totally agree on these...

But we are still talking about "economical" reasons...

I still wonder IF there is a tech advantage on doin' this "the transmission way" (Spoon secondary shaft) rather than "the differential way" (Spoon / J's etc. ring/pinion).

Next..??

Carlo

 

Not quite the same goal. The secondary reduction change would net you the 4%. Putting in a 4.40 final drive would net you about 7.3%.
IMO, the tranny job would be very expensive and for only a 4% gain. Not even close to being worth it. This is in keeping with some of the claimed gains of a 200 buck CAI. It's just plain goofy to spend thousands to do the same.
As it stands, even a 7.3% gain is "barely" worth the trouble to do the rear diff. The 4.44 gears gives an 8.3% change. I know this to be significant but shave that down to 7.3% and I'm not so sure you'd be happy with the money spent. In my mind the 4.57s would be the ideal upgrade. It's just too bad those Richmond gears have to be so noisey, but if you can live with the whine, that's the way to go.

 

31:24 instead of 29:25 seams to be 11,35% difference.

correct me if i'm wrong.

Walter

 

Here we go again...

24:31 ratio [24 divided by 31 = 0,7742 (Spoon)]

25:29 ratio [25 divided by 29 = 0,8620 (OEM)]

To go from 0,7741 to 0,8620 you need to add 11,35%

That's right... but i think we should not calcultate it this way...

We cannot say that Spoon Secondary Shaft reduces by 11,35% the gears.

Or at least.. this is my feeling.. and Maths not really my best skill !!!

Carlo

 

I didn't do the math on the secondary reduction thing. I only went by what the original poster said:
I only did the math on the final drive gear.

 

By lowering the gearing in the output of the tranny versus doing the same in the rear, the only difference is the driveshaft (propeller shaft if you like, although I thought that is what sticks out the back of my boat ). Now, back on topic. By doing the mod in the tranny, you will decrease the amount of power required to accelerate the driveshaft since the rate of driveshaft acceleration will be less than it would be by changing rear gears , thus more power would go to accelerating your car. Also, the faster the shaft is spinning, the greater the vibrations caused by it will be. I had that problem running 4.62 gears and an overdrive tranny in a '66 mustang using the original driveshaft that was designed for a 4-spd and 2.8 gears.

 

So we finally find a benefit for this solution (mod in the tranny) over the other one (mod in the rear) ??

This could lead to...?? What kind of problem??

So basically you are saying that we can mix the two solutions ..?? Could I install BOTH mods into my S2000 ...?? Or would it be too much reduction ??

In the end.. can anyone confirm the RIGHT percentage amount that the Spoon "in the tranny" will reduce the gears of..??

I mean 25:29 "stock" versus the Spoon one marked as 24:31 makes **% ??

Double-Thanks....

Carlo

 

Excessive driveshaft vibrations can in many cases be felt as you are driving. Also, they increase the wear and tear on components.

Whether it is too much depends on what you do with the car. But, you could install both if you wanted to.