I have another auto-x this weekend so it's time for me to put the thinking cap back on. Last time out in my stock 2003 I gave a shot at some trail braking only to find out I am not very good at it (yes, big spin). My questions are as follows.

First, is it supposed to be this damn difficult to do in this car? I am new to the FR 50/50 world and understand why the technique is easier in a FF setup but I guess I was really caught off guard as to how precise the execution has to be in this car. I know I am not the first. I am pleased with my progress with throttle modulation and power oversteer and seem to be able to manage my way through and out of corners pretty well, but man, this car seems downright jumpy going in with any throttle lift+braking. Spinning into the corner seems easier by tenfold than spinning on the way out.

Second, how necessary is trail braking? My impression is that it is used to counter understeer, but how much is there in the S? Seems you can only rob the rear wheels of so much traction (practically none) to send to the front with weight transfer before the back comes around to say hello. If you are going in so hot that the fronts melt away is robbing the rears really going to help?

Further, with the high engine braking nature of the S it feels like I can get more than enough trail-brake-effect by just getting off the throttle. If the back does start to get loose I am then in position to ease back into the gas to get it seated again. This also makes the transition to throttle-on much smoother for me because I am not jumping from one pedal to the other mid-corner. Is this a good technique with the S considering it's nature?

Lastly, if I find myself starting to spin would countersteer with light throttle be my best chance of recovery?

I appreciate the input from those that have more experience. If it is a valuable driving technique for this car I will continue to work at it as I bought it to learn. However, if braking hard and straight is the way to go, I don't want to spend my time trying to make the car do something it just doesn't like to do. Thank-you for taking the time.

 

OMG, let me get a cup of coffee and like an hour to reply to this one...

I'm at work so you'll have to settle for the abridged version.

Here's a moto I like: There's no coasting in auto-x.

With that said, if you don't trail brake, then you are either coasting which is really lame or you are on the gas which is really cool. If it's too early to be on the gas then you should be braking. If you find yourself engine braking then you should be using the brakes and letting the front wheels do their thing. It also means you started braking too soon.

One of the hardest things about auto-x is learning when to brake. You want to do it as late as possible and that just takes time and getting to know your setup. That's why I sucked when I put some aggressive pads on the car.

See you Sunday.

 

When I first started tracking my car I thought "trail braking doesn't work very well for the S2000". When I got better, I came to understand that I just hadn't been very good at it....

 

By trailing the brakes into the corner you effectively lengthen the braking zone, which allows you to brake later and means you'll be going faster for longer on the straight before you start braking. You trail brake because you never ever want to be coasting, but getting on the throttle early in the corner would cause you to run out of road at the exit of the corner.

 

So now that I have sucking at it out of the way, I guess I can move on to step #2.

Your responses tell me the following:

Yes, you can trail brake in the S.
Yes, it take a lot of practice and skill, as this car is unforgiving.
Yes, I will be faster if I get it right, which makes it a necessity to me.

I appreciate the feedback and welcome any additional input. It looks like this car is going to be teaching me a lot.

 

Also remember that one of the uses of trailbraking IS to get the rear end loose and to come around but in a controlled manner, in relatively tight low-speed corners.

 

I have the DVD "Drift Bible", and it goes over Trail braking. The S w/ 50/50 ratio is difficult to get it to trail brake, but I think that this DVD would help you out on getting around corners fast! I know that you don't want to drift but in some cases it can help.

 

Thank-you for the suggestion. Based on what some have said I would almost consider trail braking to be a form of drifting into the corner, particularly the low speed ones like rlaifatt mentioned, so I see your point. I have been going over the Skip Barber book and thus far, it is doing a good job of explaining the benefits and finer points. I think my biggest mistake last time out was braking too late and not getting out of it when the back started to come around. It was too much of a turn and brake at the same time. I am really looking forward to Sunday for another go at it. I just hope to get one decent run in before I go hurling myself over the edge again.

 

my understanding of "drifting" is that you are under throttle, so very different from trailbraking.

 

Drifting is getting sideways anyway you wish IMO

A classic and very visable sign of turning a vehicle before actually commiting to a turn is by watching bikes. You will see the good guys with the rear tyre hoving above the track and then allow it to swing out before they release the brakes.

Trail braking is also very helpfull to make sure the fronts are loaded as you turn in to help them bite.