I've read the very helpful FAQ on stock autocross setups, but it's from 2004. Just started autocrossing so please forgive if this sounds moronic, but I'm looking to replace the stock front swaybar with something more stiff. Anybody running the Saner or Tanabe front bars? (I'm on a low budget).

I'm running street tires with traditional staggered setup, and I'm planning to get an alignment when I get the bar. Any suggestions on a good (inexpensive) bar would be appreciated as I'm trying to keep the rear end more planted on the corners

 

the whiteline bar is cheap and about half way between stock and saner bar

 

So far you have not stated a reason for getting a stiffer front bar, so I would say stick to OEM for now.

FYI, I don't consider "more stiff" a reason in-and-of-its-self. If you are getting lots of oversteer and/or rear tire lift then you are just going to hurt your times with a stiffer bar that you don't need.

 

^^^ I realize that improving my driving (trailbrakeing, etc.) is the most important factor in improving my times, but I have read that a stiffer swaybar is better for autocrossing because it will help me turn the corners faster with less oversteer. Why is it that I would hurt my times by getting a stiffer bar?

I understand what you're saying, though: I should look to my driving before looking at adjustments or mods.

 

The sway bar is a stock class tuning method. It's not a guaranteed bolt on performance increase.

It all depends on the rest of your car. Since you have street tires, there is almost no way you are going to need the sway bar.

What will happen if you do get it, is that you will decrease front traction, which you probably don't have enough of to begin with.

The reason many autoxers get a stiffer front sway bar is to decrease rear tire lift, so that the rear differential can do its thing.

A by product of a stiffer front sway bar is the decrease front traction, which the guys who need the rear sway bar have compensated for by getting wider and stickier tires, which effects the rear tire lift.

See, its a circle. You are not in this traction increase, tire lift circle yet.

You have not identified a problem, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Okay, re-read your post. I bet you just need a better alignment and play around with your tire pressures. That will go a long way right now at your level.

I also don't recommend trail braking much as a beginner. That is one of the ways to get oversteer, which you allude to.

Bottom line is, I don't think you will "turn corners faster" but you will have less oversteer.

Focus on driving, alignment, tire pressures. Ride with another S2000 driver. Have someone drive your car to show you what it can do, or recommend a different course of action.

 

^^^Thanks I have been adjusting the tire pressure, and will get an alignment before the next race. UK specs? The guy at the alignment shop told me he would set it at whatever specs I want, but I have read so much about the right specs that my head hurts Any suggestions on alignment specs for my stock 16 wheels with Toyo T1R's? I want to increase performance but still drive as my DD. Many thanks.

 

If you are going to run street tires. The CR Swaybar may be a good option. It's cheap and
it should give you a little more stability with the alignment.

 

Sorry, I disagree with a lot of what you're saying, especially the "why" of getting the big sway bar.

First, just becuase he's on street tires doesn't mean he doesn't need a front sway bar. If he's on OEM tires with the drastic tire stagger of the S-02s, AND he has a stock alignment, sure. In showroom stock form, the S2000's balance came in the form of puny front tires and almost no camber in the front. Change the tires to anything else but the OEM S-02s (even the same 205/225 size), and you've already messed with the stagger. Change the alignment to autox specs, and you've messed the balance up by adding front grip with camber.

And that's the main reason we need the bigazz front sway bar. The car inherently oversteers, especially at higher speeds. With the big front bar, you'll get more low-speed steady-state understeer, but it's worth the high speed stability that you get from the big bar. The big front bar also lets the car take a set much quicker, making it transition even better. We also need it to prevent picking up the inside rear tire, but that's secondary to eliminating the oversteering nature of the car in autox trim. My proof? Try autoxing an AP1 with a stock bar on R-comps. Inside rear spin will prolly not be factor becuase you won't be able to keep the car straight enuf to do it.

And that's why I recommend to anyone with an AP1 that has any interest in autoxing to upgrade their front sway bar. For years I've been recommending the Saner bar. It's similar in stiffness to the Gendron solid but less than half the cost.
Even on street tires I recommend it. I run street tires mostly, and had a Saner bar on the front of my car until recently. I'd say I'm pretty competitive in my region with this setup.

I like to give this advice even to newbies, becuase once they start pushing the car, it will start to oversteer on them, and it makes a lot of newbies scared of the car. The front bar will give them a lot more confidence to push the car to it's absolute limits.

Another poster recommended the CR bar, and it may work with the 205/225 street tires, but the ideal setup for an AS AP1 on street tires is to go 225/225 (with the current tires). If you go square, I doubt the CR will work on courses with high-speed transitions. Ditto for the whiteline bar. And if that person wants to go R-comps, the CR/whiteline bar is wholly inadequate.

Sorry for the novel,
James Yom

 

Oh, and that FAQ was started back in 2004, but it still answers 95% of the questions I see on this board everyday. I just wish ppl would actually READ it. /rant off

 

I drove an students AP1 on street tires (225/225 RE01-Rs) with a solid Gendron bar on full stiff and a good auto-x alignment at a local club sponsored driving school. It had great balance and put down faster times than all the other S2000s I drove that day, so don't fall into the assumption that it won't work. I thought it worked much better and gave the right feedback to the driver without the typical "out of control" characteristics resulting from the stock sway of the AP1s.

I say go for a stiffer FSB. Go ahead and get the one you wish to end up with. I recommend the Gendron, Comptech, then Saner in that order. Make sure to research each bar and how to fix their individual issues. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.

-Marc