This is just an update for those interested in how many of us have had the "#4 cylinder" problem or similar engine failures.

So far, Honda has fixed all the cars back to normal at no charge and very quickly.

Eight of us on this board have had short block replacements due to major engine failures. Four of these are documented #4 cylinder scoring from piston slap. Four others have an undocumented failure. All eight first noted a tap tap tap sound. On some the engine oil was low at the time Honda determined there was a problem and Honda has blamed some of the failures on low oil. (Cause and effect is not really established.)

My previous list had nine with s2kfatty's engine as suspicious. For now, Honda tells Tuan that his tap tap tap sound in the morning is normal.

Good news for s2klisa! She has settled with AHM for a new S2000! Hats off to lisa!

UPDATED LIST:
SUMMARY OF F20C piston/cylinder failure information.
updated 2/26/01 21:28 PST

(1) Zoinks, VIN#7115 MY2000. Failed 10/00, odometer 7450. tapping sound led to short block replacement. "bearing failed" as diagnosis.
(2) s2klisa. VIN#? MY2000 Built 06/00 Delivered 09/00 Failed 11/00 two days before Thanksgiving. 3,200 miles at failure. Confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound from very beginning. #4 cylinder wrist pin failed, Honda told Lisa.
(3) Jason Saini, VIN#? MY2001 Delivered? Failed 12/00 at 2,200 miles. confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(4) Barry Wohl, VIN#JHMAP11491T000052.MY2001. Delivered 11/4/00. Failed 1/4/01 650 miles at failure. never low on oil. confirmed #4 piston/cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(5) AutoxEx, 2,800 miles at failure MY2001 VIN#1234. Had tapping sound and then made a loud noise and then failed. Failed 2/01. Diagnosis vague but likely piston/cylinder failure.
(6) kizneda, MY2001.JHMAP114X1T000044 Delivered 11/00
Failed 2/01. 2,900 miles at failure. #4 cylinder not confirmed. made tapping sound like #4 cylinder failures did. Honda blamed low oil.
(7) Rowland in New Hampshire MY2000 #8275 6,651 miles at failure. Manufactured 6/00. Delivered .. Failed 2/01. confirmed #4 cylinder. was not low on oil. had tapping sound.
(8) Elund, VIN#? MY2001. Delivered? Failed 2/01. 2,000 miles at failure. getting new short block. NOT confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound. Oil was down 4 quarts at diagnosis. Oil light never came on. Honda blamed low oil.


Here's the link to a longer thread about the failures.

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=7384

 

Are these F20C1 rather than the F20C2's I have? Sorry if it sounds selfish but it would be good to know

 

My car is being checked for a tapping noise too. It has been very slowly getting worse, it sounds as a valve or lifter tapping but i don't know yet if this is the case. It's worse when the engine is cold but reappears at random times. Sometimes at idle, but most often at very low revs just when touching the accelerator from idle. When the engine is cold it's a distinct metallic tapping, when it's warmer it is more of a duller darker "raw" sound when touching the pedal. The sounds are not very loud though and can only be heard from inside the car with fans etc turned off. My oil consumption has been rather high but the engine has not had too low oil level at any time.

Is this anything like you other people have experienced? My dealer is very reluctant to do anything like a compression test or other tests. Some input from you might help convince them to investigate properly.

 

First, Bassman, everyone who had this engine problem started with a tap tap tap that sounded like a misadjusted valve. I have not heard of anyone having the tap tap tap and it turning out to be anything other than a serious engine problem EXCEPT s2kfatty. So far his dealer has told him that it is nothing to worry about.

The tap tap tap can be investigated this way. This is how it worked for me. The dealer thought it was a valve problem. The dealer ordered a valve cover gasket and after a week the dealer's S2000 mechanic took the valve cover off and adjusted the valves. Two were slightly misadjusted but that didn't cure the problem. The mechanic thought it wouldn't because he heard the sound louder over the exhaust manifold than over the valve cover.

Next, the mechanic pulled the plugs and found that the #4 cylinder plug was black from incomplete burning and the other three were a slate gray. Also, there was oil on the piston top. Honda-Tech, the support phone service from AHM, told the dealer to look inside with cylinders with a "bore-o-scope" and he found a scored cylinder just like this picture from Jason Saini's engine.

Scored piston:


Damaged liner (notice the glass smooth finish on the others):


Here's the whole thread of Jason's from December, 2000.

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=2673

So far, all eight short block replacements due to piston/cylinder failure are U.S.A. S2000s. There have been a couple short block replacements due to "porous block" and Aus2000 in Sydney, Australia was one of these.

Keep us posted. For now, I won't put you on the list, but don't let your dealer tell you it is normal without a peek inside.

We think the tap tap tap sound that sounds like valve noise is really piston slap. It would make sense that it shows up in cold engines and it disappears into the other engine noises at 5,000 rpm.

 

Barry:

Thanks again for keeping us posted.

Do you have any contacts at AHM that are going to get back with you on the cause of your failure? Manufacturers can be very secretive about this, but if you have a contact or your dealer puts some pressure on AHM, maybe you can find something out.

Many of us here are very anxious...

Steve

 

Is there anyway that we can archive this thread somewhere, while still keeping it open on the S2Ko board for added reports?

Can we archive it in a FAQ section, or "special interest" thread section on S2Ki.com? I think that this info can provide useful as more and more issues like this come up, especially to newbie owners.

 

I think the most likely thing is that they will fix it and the problem will go away, but, we'll never get an official answer.

Ken Way, the service writer at Valley Motor Honda, included a note to Honda inside the box with my defective short block asking to be informed of what the problem was. That part has been shipped back to Japan for evaluation. Someone in Japan might respond to that note or might just ignore it.

As long as they fix it and the list stops at eight, I'll be happy!

I love my S2000 and I got top notch service on fixing this sample defect. I don't want anyone to misinterpret my keeping this thread alive as a lack of support for the S2000. I've got new parts on the way including a Silverstone Metalic hard top, JDM wheels, wheel locks, and I've got parts in the garage awaiting a visit to the mechanic including the Spoon X brace and the Neuspeed strut tower brace.

Barry

 

Barry, Yesterday was the first time I had the chance to see the scuffed piston and liner out of Jason's car. The piston and liner appear to be scored on the majot thrust side of the cylinder. This problem of piston scuffing, is somthing I teach constantly in my diesel enginge classes. Scuffing is almost always caused by either mis-alignment of the piston in the cylinder, or the loss of the lube oil's protective coating. Low oil, over heated oil, poor oil quality, or fuel in the oil could all possibly cause this type of failure. For those people with the "Tapping Sound". They may want to consider having a lube oil analysis performed. Oil change shops offer this service. If you have a scuffed piston and cylinder, the trace elements of the metals should be detectable in the oil. I must admit these failures have made a lot of people paranoid, including myself. I find myself constantly listening carefully to the engine every time I shut it down. I constantly have to remind myself that this is a small percentage of the total number of cars out there, and I look forward to a long trouble free relationship with my stook!

MY 2001 Silver/Black
MY 1986 Red 911 Cab

No Mods, I'm leaving it stock!

 

Thanks, Barry.

I live in a fairly small town in East Texas, where we only have 1 honda dealer, and I really don't care for them or their service much. I really hope that I don't have to go through what you have. I don't trust most mechanics, and I would really hate to have someone perform major surgery on an engine that they had never seen before. Our local dealer has only sold 2 S2000's, and they were very uncooperative when I was ready to buy one, so I ended up putting down a deposit on one in Louisiana, about 300 miles away. There are a couple of dealers in Dallas that I would consider, but they are 120 miles away.

 

On the positive side, AHM has offered extended engine warranties of one type or another to several of us with short block replacements. s2klisa got the ultimate deal with an new S2000. I got a great deal on a 7 year/75,000 miles zero deductible plan. I paid for it, but much less than the usual price. Kizneda got a free 5 year/50,000 mile engine warranty.

Additionally, on the positive side, not one of us with the short block replacement now has a problem with our engines.

Barry