Brownergy

Man I wish you didn't live so far away. I am willing to bet a large amount of money that your driving skill has not exceeded the capabilities of the S2000's stock suspension. In fact I would be willing to bet another large amount of money that my stock S2000 with me driving would own your heavily JDM modified S2000 with you driving. I'm not claiming to be an awesome driver, I'm merely stating that the modifications you've made (as well as many other JDM freaks) mostly in terms of suspension have made your car handle worse than stock.

Now as far as my experience with JDM coilovers, I have none. I'm sorry that I took the word of Racer's (people that actually drive the car at the track frequently and sometimes for competition) who have given feedback and shock dynoing numbers on some of the JDM coilovers. Over at the R&C it's a frequent to read things like this, "after swapping out my Buddy Club dampers for the stock OEM suspension I was amazed at how my times improved." or "the tein flex c/o system put down pitiful dyno shock numbers compared to my Penske's."

Since the S2000's stock suspension is more than enough for me to handle right now I don't plan on upgrading my suspension just yet. Seeing as how I also don't know how serious my racing addiction will put me in debt (considering Motons).

And J's AP1, all you've ever done is compare apples to apples, you've never used Motons, JRZs, or KW's so you don't know what you're missing. If all your life you were fed crap, you don't know how good a steak off the barbie is.

And if you ever were to attend the R&C Haters Ball, You would go home with your tail tucked.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Kel

How did we get into competition coilovers when the thread starter only asked what to do about lowering a street driven car? He even stated he wasn't going to do any kind of competition/tracking.

Look we welcome your opinion as long as you have good data and experiences to suport your opinion. BC's, although they say "Racing Damper" are not built for competition. Neither are Tein Flex coilovers, they're designed for maximum "driving comfort and sports performance." Do you have shock dyno's for Tein RS? Super Racing? N1? Showas? CRUX? Fightex? Feel's? GR-6? My guess is no, you've all been bashing people that come in on "dress-up" street suspension kits. We all know JRZ, Moton, KW, Ohlins, Bilstein, and Penseke are all good. But just because they're good doesn't mean everyone else's belongs in the trash can.

Brownergy

I never said they did, but as and enthusiast, I feel it necessary to warn new members and users of the consequences when going with a cheap suspension. I personaly bought the S2000 because of it's awesome performance at speed. It's a great track car and the most fun for a driver to drive. I'm sure other people bought the car for the same reason, so I don't want them to take away from that perfomance when they think they are improving the car. Don't you think that's only fair. So many of you buy JDM products, just because they are JDM, regardless that there is bettter products to be had for less money that are manufactured somewhere else. Although I remember someone was using the Tein RS's at the track, they started out nice but buy the end of a 30 minute session the owner complained about sloppyness.

And I wouldn't expect you to know this, but when buying a high dollar suspension kit like Crux, Tein Super Racing (unsure of price) Fightex, Feels, etc. you are usually buying them to take you to a different level in racing. And when you buy these JDM hi dollar coilovers and they ship them over, what you've got is what you've got. Whereas say, a smart racer would do, buy some JRZ's, talk to Wael who will build these dampers and match spring rates to exactly what they will be used for, and when you move from auto-x to say track days, you can send them out and have Wael Re-valve them and buy a different set of springs. All within a couple weeks. The possiblities are endless, whereas these JDM coilovers you are pretty much stuck with what you got. You will never get any advice on what to run or what sway bar to use to match with these dampers. You really have no clue.

VeilsideAP1

No, you really have no clue... Any coilover you buy can be customized, revalved, etc... most "enthusiasts" wouldn't bother with customizing any application though, because it requires a great deal of technical knowledge, on top of knowing the car VERY well...

Irregardless, I find it hilarious that you speak so highly of said "racers" experience... I also find it quite humorous that you would belive wholeheartedly any compression tests done by an individual... such an undertaking would require an SRS dependant on the amount produced per year... I don't know anyone willing to spend upwards of 25000 to accurately accomplish such a feat. I sure as hell wouldn't. That's why manufacturers give the specs to the public... they have the ability to do so at little to no cost...

As far as you putting a "whooping" on our JDM cars, I so desperately wish you were local. The only thing you would be aquainted with would be the sillouette of my car in front of you... and I do speak from experience, so don't go pointing fingers or calling anyone out... I'd bet some good money you aren't half the driver you'd like to think you are... what is even more amusing is that you make such outlandish statements without knowing anyones driving (or racing in this case) history...

Brownergy

HAHA, wow, at 20 years old it's been a while since I've heard High School taunting. The silouette of your car, good one. That's a good idea. I think we should do a forum battle, the JDM forum against the R&C forum. I know where I'd bet my money. So you're saying that I could have the same customer-manufacture relationship with Feel's as I would with say Moton or JRZ. Last time I went to a SCCA event, Moton reps were swarming the paddocks, I must not have seen the Tein or Feels guys. I'm also glad you touched on technicial knowledge, if you are going to buy a tunable 2-3-4 way adjustable suspension that you have knowledge of what effects your adjusts are making. Especially concerning roll centers and cross weights.

Also, if you could comprehend reading on such a low level, you would realize I never made any outlandish statements on anyones driving ability or lack there of. I simply stated that the J's AP1 has probably not exceeded the limits of the stock S2000 suspension (which I know I haven't) and that the setup of someones JDM pimped S2000 would infact handle worse than a stock S2000. Hence a 4 inch drop, that I've heard such members brag about, would make the car handle terribly. The S2000 already has demands a lot of compresion travel, hence the remote resevoir on the OEM rear shocks. So incidently, when you go to a cheap single resevoir shock in the rear, most cases you are losing said compression travel. Then again, I know JDM is the best and you will continue to argue so. And as far as "Don't go pointing fingers and calling anyone out" come on, grow up. I haven't made any claims to be a great driver. You on the other hand have, and now I will be checking for your name in the SCCA standings.

Brownergy

After reading through the entire thread, I've decided not to partake in this war any longer, hopefully one day you will see past the origin of a part and just buy the better product regardless of where it's manufactured. I've done my best to try to educate you guys on those better products and the rest is up to you. Veilside Ap1, I think you would really be impressed with the KW Variant 3 suspension, it's by far the product I've done the most research on in a long time. Seems like a real I'm sure if you are the real driver you say you are, you'll respect the tunability and feedback this suspension gives the driver. It's a good gate way suspension for getting you into suspension tuning. I my self will probably buy the KW's when the time comes, and when the car gets retired to full track duty and I feel I need the next step I will probably go Moton or JRZ. Best of wishes.

VeilsideAP1

The arguement was never over what is, and what is not JDM... you should have figured that out by now... If you want to blow by your comments by glazing over them, that's fine with me... I could care less, I was actually having some fun bickering... KW isn't bad product, but for your stated 3k, so much more could be had. What is really funny, is KW wanted to sponsor me, and I declined...

Brownergy

I never said anything about "blowing by or glazing" my comments, I would like you to read them and interpret them as you wish. All I see is you telling me there is something better out there for $3K and then listing a bunch of JDM suspensions in that price range. I would love to hear how the Crux suspension did on the track and how the settings you adjusted improved or hindered the car. But I don't think you're going to be able to do that for me. Another thing, KW probably wanted to sponsor your car, not you, if a company wanted to sponsor a person, it's usually because of talent. IMHO, I would never let someone sponsor my car, I like paying for what I have and I hate cars with bunch of tacky stickers on them.

VeilsideAP1

um, I did interpret them how I wished... I also don't have the Crux coils... sorry.

Regarding the KW thing, good for you! After the first 60k, I figured I'd accept a little help here and there.. you know...

VeilsideAP1

wait, were you above continuing to argue?