Who Knows tuning with Emanage Ultimate?
07-25-2007, 09:49 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Who Knows tuning with Emanage Ultimate?
I am considering a couple possibilities of getting some power out of my car. Either NA or FI route might include Emanage Ultimate down the road. Since I am a total novice to tuning, I have a couple questions regarding the system.
First, is there a good resource (perhaps a manual for Emanage or book on general tuning) to read so that I can better understand exactly what is being done. I hope to find a qualified tuner but I want to understand what is going on and make sure that if I understand the basics I won't be snowed by someone who claims to be a great tuner but could do harm to my car.
I would like to learn how to determine safe air fuel ratios, and how "safe" might vary under different conditions. For example, is a safe ratio at low rpm not rich enough ratio if the engine is at redline and so forth.
Secondly, since you can control fuel and timing, unlike say a VAFC, does the emanage override the Ecu's response to the knock sensor? It was my understanding that the ecu would advance timing until knock was detected and then pull it back. So if you are advancing timing, is that because the stock ecu advances to conservatively? If so, and you make it more aggressive will the ECU still be able to protect the car from knock in all conditions?
Lastly, one of the threads I read GilbertG was discussing what would happen if your ecu is disconnected from power and reset and goes through an abrupt relearn cycle. If I read that part correctly, one should not drive aggressively for several miles as the ECU relearns, but that there would be no need to retune or cause for concern after 10-20 miles. The ECU would fall back into safe responses to what the Emanage is trying to do after several miles and a prior "safe" tune would not be made unsafe by the ECU reset. Correct?
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long winded questions.
Vader1
First, is there a good resource (perhaps a manual for Emanage or book on general tuning) to read so that I can better understand exactly what is being done. I hope to find a qualified tuner but I want to understand what is going on and make sure that if I understand the basics I won't be snowed by someone who claims to be a great tuner but could do harm to my car.
I would like to learn how to determine safe air fuel ratios, and how "safe" might vary under different conditions. For example, is a safe ratio at low rpm not rich enough ratio if the engine is at redline and so forth.
Secondly, since you can control fuel and timing, unlike say a VAFC, does the emanage override the Ecu's response to the knock sensor? It was my understanding that the ecu would advance timing until knock was detected and then pull it back. So if you are advancing timing, is that because the stock ecu advances to conservatively? If so, and you make it more aggressive will the ECU still be able to protect the car from knock in all conditions?
Lastly, one of the threads I read GilbertG was discussing what would happen if your ecu is disconnected from power and reset and goes through an abrupt relearn cycle. If I read that part correctly, one should not drive aggressively for several miles as the ECU relearns, but that there would be no need to retune or cause for concern after 10-20 miles. The ECU would fall back into safe responses to what the Emanage is trying to do after several miles and a prior "safe" tune would not be made unsafe by the ECU reset. Correct?
Thanks in advance. Sorry for the long winded questions.
Vader1
07-25-2007, 02:09 PM
#3
Thread Starter
That helps a little, but will it still be able to pull timing after knock is detected or is the piggyback completely overriding that ability?
Just trying to assess potential danger if I find a tuner who messes up a little. Worst case.
Just trying to assess potential danger if I find a tuner who messes up a little. Worst case.
07-25-2007, 02:39 PM
#5
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If you reset your ECU I would break it back in without the Emanage then simply plug the emanage back in. A wide band would come in handy there to test your theory. As for A/F ratio I'd say no more than 13.8, there are a couple of guys using that and seem to be just fine, anything 14.0+ gets the inside of the combustion chamber too hot and shit starts melting. haha
07-25-2007, 03:04 PM
#6
Registered User
Originally Posted by ShocK,Jul 25 2007, 03:39 PM
If you reset your ECU I would break it back in without the Emanage then simply plug the emanage back in. A wide band would come in handy there to test your theory. As for A/F ratio I'd say no more than 13.8, there are a couple of guys using that and seem to be just fine, anything 14.0+ gets the inside of the combustion chamber too hot and shit starts melting. haha
i ran 13.9:1 with my vafc2 but wouldnt recomend anyone else to. my motor seem to be able to handle it pretty well, but 13.9 is about as far as you wanna push it.
07-26-2007, 05:34 AM
#7
Thread Starter
What is the leanest AFR stock?
I do remember a semi famous quote from the MR2 board, "Your car never feels faster than right before you melt a piston."
I do remember a semi famous quote from the MR2 board, "Your car never feels faster than right before you melt a piston."
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07-26-2007, 06:45 AM
#9
Registered User
Originally Posted by vader1,Jul 26 2007, 06:34 AM
What is the leanest AFR stock?
I do remember a semi famous quote from the MR2 board, "Your car never feels faster than right before you melt a piston."
I do remember a semi famous quote from the MR2 board, "Your car never feels faster than right before you melt a piston."
and its true, your car will make more power the leaner you tune it, rite up until it blows. i made 236whp but my tuner got a lil excited with the AFR and that run showed 14.2:1! luckily it was only one run and the car was fine, but still!
07-26-2007, 07:53 AM
#10
Since the ULT advance timing a % over the factory if you advance the timing to far (or conditions cause a detectable knock by the stock ECU) the stock computer will retard the timing despite the ULT advanced timing factor.
Example would be
you have the ULT to advance 5 deg over stock and everything is fine.
you then try an advance timing to 10deg over stock and the stock ecu detects knock
the stock ECU will retard timing by its internal knock detection protocols despite the ULT advancing timing until nock is not longer detected.
While this does give you some protection if you try and advance the timing to far in a specific load cell knock can happen and damage the motor prior to the stock ECU being able to retard timing.
Moral of the story is take the system to a reputable tuner and have him/her tune your car.
Example would be
you have the ULT to advance 5 deg over stock and everything is fine.
you then try an advance timing to 10deg over stock and the stock ecu detects knock
the stock ECU will retard timing by its internal knock detection protocols despite the ULT advancing timing until nock is not longer detected.
While this does give you some protection if you try and advance the timing to far in a specific load cell knock can happen and damage the motor prior to the stock ECU being able to retard timing.
Moral of the story is take the system to a reputable tuner and have him/her tune your car.