Money and Investing Discuss stock picks, portfolios, retirement and other investment related topics.

Rule 10b5-1 loophole

Thread Tools
 
Old 03-18-2008, 12:31 PM
  #1  
Registered User

Thread Starter
 
vtec9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 10,106
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Rule 10b5-1 loophole

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Whistleblower_ex...JP_Morgan?=dugg

News to anyone?
Old 03-18-2008, 01:37 PM
  #2  
Registered User
 
trainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 2,440
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

we can just tack that onto the long list in ways the ultrarich screw the small investor.
Old 03-18-2008, 03:46 PM
  #3  
Registered User
 
aklucsarits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The 10b5 plans are designed to allow company staff with large holdings of their companies shares or share options to set a predetermined share sale plan so that they can sell some (or even all) of their holdings to diversify their net worth. The sales are all planned and documented well in advance so that the share holder is relatively insulated from the claim or appearances of insider trading.

I don't understand what is so alarming about what's in the presentation you linked too. What is proposed in there that you think violates the letter or spirit of the 10b5 rules?

The most significant loophole in the 10b5 plans (something that link and the article does not mention) is that the plan participant can elect to remove themselves from the plan at nearly any time. So if 1 year ago, the holder had arranged to sell 100,000 shares in 2009 - but now the holder has information that leads them to believe that 2010 might be a great year for business, they can elect to pull out of the plan and hold those 100,000 shares through 2010. THAT is a loophole, albeit one that does not negatively impact other shareholders.

Andrew
Old 03-18-2008, 06:37 PM
  #4  
Registered User

 
sahtt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Sounds like insider trading to me, they use their knowledge to decide when to sell a position. I understand the concept on the surface-having too much of your investments in company stock is excruciatingly common and dangerous. But there are other ways to fix this by establishing penalties if say your 401k is over 33% the company stock. But they won't do that, it'll hurt THEIR stock prices.


Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Picturepro
Money and Investing
14
02-18-2011 07:04 PM
_Dc
Money and Investing
4
11-27-2007 09:34 PM
Cyberous
Money and Investing
3
10-03-2007 11:19 AM
cthree
Money and Investing
25
08-14-2007 09:07 AM



Quick Reply: Rule 10b5-1 loophole



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:23 AM.