The automaker bailout
12-03-2008, 04:58 AM
#1
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The automaker bailout
How do you guys feel about this?
The executives have a ton of egg on their faces from showing up to the congressional hearings last time in separate jets and with no plan and got tossed on their asses. Now they are driving in hybrid suvs and all of a sudden want to work for $1 a year.
I think it is too little too late.
The US automakers haven't produced anything interesting or competitive in years save a few exceptions like some of the Cadillacs and a couple of Dodge products. They don't seem to be interested in reliability either. Enough is enough. Survival of the fittest.
I am afraid of the repercussions of a failure though. I am sure they will get their money. However I don;t think they will ever improve their product significantly.
What do you guys think?
The executives have a ton of egg on their faces from showing up to the congressional hearings last time in separate jets and with no plan and got tossed on their asses. Now they are driving in hybrid suvs and all of a sudden want to work for $1 a year.
I think it is too little too late.
The US automakers haven't produced anything interesting or competitive in years save a few exceptions like some of the Cadillacs and a couple of Dodge products. They don't seem to be interested in reliability either. Enough is enough. Survival of the fittest.
I am afraid of the repercussions of a failure though. I am sure they will get their money. However I don;t think they will ever improve their product significantly.
What do you guys think?
12-03-2008, 05:09 AM
#2
I think the economy is in too much peril already to let them sink. If they have a plan that shows potential for major improvement in the management of the respective companies, they can and should have some of the bailout money. AIG and others didn't have to jump through so many hoops to get their cash.
They obviously showed extrememly poor judgement showing up in their jets last time. I think showing up in cars this time is just "for show" but it had to be done.
I also think it's about time some CEOs get paid fairly. $1.00 a year sounds right.
I'm sure they have all made plenty of $ in the past that they can work for $1.00/year for quite some time. Working for $1.00/year is also pretty much "for show", these aren't poor guys, but they need to show they are truly concerned about the fate of their companies and what folding up/bankruptcy would do to the auto industry and related businesses.
They obviously showed extrememly poor judgement showing up in their jets last time. I think showing up in cars this time is just "for show" but it had to be done.
I also think it's about time some CEOs get paid fairly. $1.00 a year sounds right.
I'm sure they have all made plenty of $ in the past that they can work for $1.00/year for quite some time. Working for $1.00/year is also pretty much "for show", these aren't poor guys, but they need to show they are truly concerned about the fate of their companies and what folding up/bankruptcy would do to the auto industry and related businesses.
12-03-2008, 05:12 AM
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I have heard (but have no proof) that the guys on the assembly lines make outrageous amounts of money for essentially un-skilled labor. I think their unions need to make some concessions in order to survive. Or they can all be on their asses with no jobs.
I have always wondered why the US automakers can't make inspiring, reliable cars. WTF is the problem?
I have always wondered why the US automakers can't make inspiring, reliable cars. WTF is the problem?
12-03-2008, 06:32 AM
#4
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I think people quickly jump to the conclusion that US automakers make cars that people don't want... which I really don't agree with. True, they don't make exactly what I want (An AWD station wagon) but they do make things like the turbo'd Solstice/Sky that I'd buy if I was in the market again. (IE, didn't have an S2k). And the Chevy Malibu is generally agreed to be the best new sedan on the market right now, even better than Accord or Camry. Check out the reviews. Heck, even Erick wants a Cobalt SS, which is damned good bang for the buck.
As far as CEOs, I think the companies have nobody to blame but themselves and the boards of directors. It's become WAY too commonplace for the board to elect a CEO with a massive compensation package, and even worse, a bigger buy-out when the CEO fails. Which is amazing. Someone can come in, eff up a company, and quit with a $10M bonus. It's happened elsewhere. I think more CEOs should be like the Google CEOs, who have ALWAYS made a $1 salary and a ton of stock options. That's the way to go... have your compensation be tied to the company's success. Company does well, CEO makes millions. Company doesn't do well, CEO does not.
It should be no surprise that I'm anti-union. I was before I started my job here, where I'm a salaried worker at a company with 2 large unions. But I'm even moreso now. I think the days of a labor union are long gone, with OSHA taking over workplace safety concerns. I honestly think the Unions are what have strangled the US automakers. I would call that the #1 issue they face. So many of the Big Three cars aren't even made in the USA. By comparison, so many foreign makes are actually made IN the USA... in non-union shops. Toyota being the prime example.
The ironic thing is... people still want SUVs. And you know who's going to reap the benefits with the Big Three's struggles? Toyota. Currently, they sell 6 different SUVs in the US, not counting the hybrid models and Lexus-badged ones. And the fact of the matter is people will still buy them.
People have this warm fuzzy feeling about Toyota because they have the Prius as visible, recognizable advertisement driving around, while the RAV-4, 4-Runner, FJ Cruiser, Sequoia, Highlander, and Land Cruiser all blend into the scenery because people are used to seeing them.
The problem isn't with engineering. The issue is that you need to cut out the bloated Union that's been growing like cholesterol on the arteries of the Big Three. Following that, you need CEOs that realize that the general public doesn't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to cars... a good 75% need to be told what they they want to buy, but made to think it was their idea. It's sad, but true. They follow trends and don't know why. The actual specifics of a car are too complicated for them to understand, so they base their decision on outside input.
All that being said, the only thing I'd miss if the Big Three went under is the Corvette. It's the only car that's always been worth more than it cost... whether you liked it or not, whether you would buy one or not, I think it'd be sad to see it go.
As far as CEOs, I think the companies have nobody to blame but themselves and the boards of directors. It's become WAY too commonplace for the board to elect a CEO with a massive compensation package, and even worse, a bigger buy-out when the CEO fails. Which is amazing. Someone can come in, eff up a company, and quit with a $10M bonus. It's happened elsewhere. I think more CEOs should be like the Google CEOs, who have ALWAYS made a $1 salary and a ton of stock options. That's the way to go... have your compensation be tied to the company's success. Company does well, CEO makes millions. Company doesn't do well, CEO does not.
It should be no surprise that I'm anti-union. I was before I started my job here, where I'm a salaried worker at a company with 2 large unions. But I'm even moreso now. I think the days of a labor union are long gone, with OSHA taking over workplace safety concerns. I honestly think the Unions are what have strangled the US automakers. I would call that the #1 issue they face. So many of the Big Three cars aren't even made in the USA. By comparison, so many foreign makes are actually made IN the USA... in non-union shops. Toyota being the prime example.
The ironic thing is... people still want SUVs. And you know who's going to reap the benefits with the Big Three's struggles? Toyota. Currently, they sell 6 different SUVs in the US, not counting the hybrid models and Lexus-badged ones. And the fact of the matter is people will still buy them.
People have this warm fuzzy feeling about Toyota because they have the Prius as visible, recognizable advertisement driving around, while the RAV-4, 4-Runner, FJ Cruiser, Sequoia, Highlander, and Land Cruiser all blend into the scenery because people are used to seeing them.
The problem isn't with engineering. The issue is that you need to cut out the bloated Union that's been growing like cholesterol on the arteries of the Big Three. Following that, you need CEOs that realize that the general public doesn't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to cars... a good 75% need to be told what they they want to buy, but made to think it was their idea. It's sad, but true. They follow trends and don't know why. The actual specifics of a car are too complicated for them to understand, so they base their decision on outside input.
All that being said, the only thing I'd miss if the Big Three went under is the Corvette. It's the only car that's always been worth more than it cost... whether you liked it or not, whether you would buy one or not, I think it'd be sad to see it go.
12-03-2008, 06:42 AM
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Dodge makes an AWD Magnum, which is a Bad Ass ride. Probably what I would buy if I were going to purchase something right now. Either that or a Tundra or maybe go around with another Titan.
12-03-2008, 06:54 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by HARDtoTOP,Dec 3 2008, 11:42 AM
Dodge makes an AWD Magnum, which is a Bad Ass ride. Probably what I would buy if I were going to purchase something right now. Either that or a Tundra or maybe go around with another Titan.
Of course, the other amusing thing is that I've never bought a new car, and still don't plan to buy a new car. So my preference in vehicles is completely unnoticed by car companies.
12-03-2008, 03:16 PM
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12-03-2008, 03:20 PM
#8
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maine 92% of people polled say no bailout for automakers, national poll says 62% of people do not want automaker bailout
i think thats a pretty good indicator of how this issue may end up.
i think thats a pretty good indicator of how this issue may end up.
12-03-2008, 03:25 PM
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People are fed up with bailouts in general and I think the fact that most people have been burnt by shoddy american cars in the past contributes to their problem. I bet that 38% of the folks who do want the bailout own brand new american cars and are affraid of what will become of their warranties next year when all the dealerships are belly up. The other 62% who dont want to spend the money already jumped ship and own foreign cars.
Another down side of this is that with less competition, the prices of new cars will most likely go up.
Who knows, it may open the door for some new brands of US cars. Right now the big 3 don't allow much of that right now. I watched the movie "Tucker" and I know DeLorean was framed!
