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Acura TL-S brake caliper upgrade thread

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Acura TL-S brake caliper upgrade thread

Old 02-18-2014, 09:55 PM
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Default Acura TL-S brake caliper upgrade thread

Okay so as most of us know, the stock s2000 brakes are pretty good from factory. The whole damn car is pretty much perfect from factory. I've come across a couple random pics of RL, TL and DC5 brembo calipers on the s2k. Gotta say I love the look of them and they'd definately be an upgrade to the stock calipers imo. Brand new, you can get them for about $675 from the dealer.Not 100% sure what rotor to use just yet, but I will be trying the s2k,tl and 350z rotors. I'll be doing the TL type S calipers on my 2k and try to put down as much info as I can in this thread. I just ordered some used calipers off ebay today so when they come in i'll update this thread.

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Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any damages on you or your car while following this DIY. Always have a professional shop do the work if you aren't sure on what you are doing.
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After some reading I found out that theres a ton of aftermarket pad support for these as well..

Acura TL 3.2 (Brembo) (Manual) 2004+
Cadillac CTS-V 5.7 2004-2005
Cadillac CTS-V 6.0 2006+
Cadillac STS-V 4.4 Supercharged 2004+
Ford GT 5.4 2004+
Ford GT 5.4 2004+
Mitsubishi Evolution 2.0 Turbo Evolution 1999-2003
Mitsubishi Evolution 2.0 Turbo Evo 8/9 2003+
Subaru WRX 2.0 Turbo WRX STi 2003-2004
Subaru WRX Sti 2.5 STi Turbo 2003-2004
Subaru WRX Sti 2.5 STi Turbo 2005+

*RL front caliper is a dual 43mm piston setup(2904mm/sq)
Difference= 18%

Front:

TL-S Brembo pistons at 38 and 42mm
TL-S Brembo Front Piston Surface Area: 2519mm/sq
Rotor: 310mm(12.2")@17.5lbs

S2K pistons at 54mm
S2K Front Piston Surface Area: 2290mm/sq
Rotor: 300mm(11.8")@14.5lbs

Difference= 10%

Rear:

TL-S Rear piston at 38mm
TL-S Rear Piston Surface Area: 1134mm/sq
Rotor: 283mm(11.14")@10lbs

S2K Rear piston at 40.5mm
S2K Rear Piston Surface Area: 1288mm/sq
Rotor: 282mm(11.10)@9lbs

Difference= 12%

COST:

Option 1(same one im doing):

Front calipers- $450
Brake Pads- $100-$350
ATE Brake Fluid- $30
97-05 Acura NSX Brake discs- $70-220
Rebuild kit- $40-60
Re-use OEM S2K mounting bolts- $0
17.5mm Steel inserts/BIG-Serts(for mounting bolts)-$130
7mm milled caliper ears/mounting points -$100* (SUGGEST BRINGING THE KNUCKLE,ROTOR AND CALIPER TO MACHINE SHOP FOR CORRECT MEASUREMENT)
Russel Speed bleeders(4)- $30
G2 caliper paint- $35
Brembo decals - $10
Trim heat sheild to fit caliper
Wheel spacers(depending on what wheel you may not need them)

Total: $880-1550


Option 2(Upgrade from option 1):

TL-S used Front calipers- $400
HC800 Brake Pads- $240
ATE Brake Fluid- $30
Racing Brake 2-piece Brake discs- $700-900
Rebuild kit- $40-60
Re-use OEM S2K mounting bolts- $0
Steel inserts/BIG-Serts(for mounting bolts)-$130
7mm milled caliper ears/mounting points -$100*
G2 caliper paint- $35
Brembo decals - $10

Total: $1600-1900


Option 3(bare minimum):

Front calipers- $250-450
Re-use brake Pads- $0
Brake Fluid- $20
OEM S2K Brake discs(resurfaced)- $30
OEM TL-S mounting bolts- $10
Drill Bigger holes(for mounting bolts)-$?
7mm hubcentric spacer(behind rotor)-$50
Hex plugs/bleeders(4)- $20
Extended studs(hammered in)- $40

Total: $420-620+

Option 4(Refresh everything):

New Front calipers- $675
Stoptech/Brembo brake Pads- $160
ATE SB Brake Fluid- $30
New OEM S2K Brake discs- $100-200
OEM TL-S mounting bolts- $10
Drill Bigger holes(for mounting bolts)-$?
7mm hubcentric spacer(behind rotor)-$50
Hex plugs(4)- $20
Russel Speed bleeders(4)- $40
Extended studs(pressed in)- $40+labour
New bearings- $150-200
Brembo decals - $10

Total: $1265+
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:53 PM
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Found a 12.8" rotor..s2k hats+tl type s rings

http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...-TL-p/2260.htm


Wheels that fit(with/without spacers:

1. AP2v1 minimum 22mm spacer

Originally Posted by Atr-platti View Post
In the picture is a 25mm spacer fittted. Clearence is 5mm with oem ap2v1 wheels.

2. Advan RS GTR Face 17x9 +22 - No spacer
3. Rota Titan 17x9 +35 w/10mm spacer minimum
4. Volk CE28 17x9.5 +28 - No spacer but recommend 3mm spacer if racing
5. Volk CE28 17x9.5 +35 w/30mm spacer
6. Enkei NT03(first gen)17x9 +38 w/20mm spacer
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:11 AM
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:22 AM
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What's the piston area and working radius vs. stock? If it adds a lot of front bias, I wouldn't consider it an "upgrade"!
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
What's the piston area and working radius vs. stock? If it adds a lot of front bias, I wouldn't consider it an "upgrade"!

Simple. You could always run an adjustable prop valve or different/softer pads up front than whats in the rear

But piston area is

TL-S Brembo pistons at 38 and 42mm (X2 per caliper)
TL-S Brembo Front Piston Surface Area: (1134+1385)x2=5038mm/sq (Area = (Pi/4) × Diameter squared)

S2K pistons at 54mm (X2 per caliper)
S2K Front Piston Surface Area: 2290x2=4580mm/sq(some say "But sliding caliper pistons "act" like two pistons so that the effective piston area doubles..")
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:49 PM
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You just look at the piston area on one side to get the clamping force, so yeah, we're looking at a 38 and 42 vs. a single 54. The TL-S caliper has 10% greater clamping force for a given line pressure.
The TL-S rotors are 12.8"? Vs. 11.8" stock OEM? Assuming that the caliper working radius is ~1" inboard from the outside of the rotor (a guess), the working radius for the TL-S caliper is about (12.8/2)-1 = 5.4", and stock is about (11.8/2)-1 = 4.9". So for a given clamping force, the braking torque would be 10% greater.

10% more front bias from caliper claming force, 10% more from increased rotor size => 21% greater braking torque up front for the same rear braking torque.

Seems like a big shift in f/r bias... Fronts will be at impending lockup at 1/1.21 or 82.6% of the line pressure they were at with the stock setup. So the rears will be contributing 17.4% less braking at impending front lockup. Hmmm...
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:33 AM
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Interesting. I was most likely going to stay with the stock rotor actually. Would the brake pad trick or prop valve help with this? Also If the car was rarely being tracked would it be noticeable with regular braking?

I was looking @ the RSX-R Brembo's as well but the piston area is 1822mm/sq(32/36)

I figured the TL-S would work ok after seeing this post..

"I tracked my car quite often with this exact setup and have had zero issues with brake bias. "
"The braking was almost perfect with out adjusting the proportion."

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/100...per-coversion/
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cheddaboy View Post
Interesting. I was most likely going to stay with the stock rotor actually. Would the brake pad trick or prop valve help with this? Also If the car was rarely being tracked would it be noticeable with regular braking?
If you stay with stock rotor diameter, not as big a deal. You will still get to impending front lockup at 10% lower line pressure, so rears will be doing 10% less at that point.

I was looking @ the RSX-R Brembo's as well but the piston area is 1822mm/sq(32/36)
OK, pi*(32^2 + 36^2)/4 = 1822mm^2, stock = pi*(54^2)/4 = 2290mm^2, so those would DEpower the fronts by 20% and move brake bias aft significantly. Bad idea!

I figured the TL-S would work ok after seeing this post..

"I tracked my car quite often with this exact setup and have had zero issues with brake bias. "
"The braking was almost perfect with out adjusting the proportion."
Everybody has different preferences regarding brake bias and feel. Personally I like as much rear bias as can be safely achieved to ensure the rears are doing their fair share, while still ensuring that fronts lock before rears in all conditions. I wouldn't want to alter the stock front/rear bias as it works well for me. With no ABS, I still get front lockup before rears at the track and on the street, on R-comps, extreme performance, and winter tires, in the dry, in the wet, and on the snow, while running the same pads all around (XP8 or HP+ track, OEM street). However some declare the car to be "undriveable" with same front/rear pads at the track with no ABS, so .

How do you like the braking balance now?
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:34 AM
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Oh ok, well good to know this stuff. I like the brakes as they are right now, I was mainly going for looks really. I'll be doing mostly autocross(good pads and tires are usually good enough with stock calipers) and the odd track day here and there(2-4 a year). Is there an OEM like option for the rear that would match up? Like maybe TL-S rears?
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:44 PM
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Are you doing the rear brakes as well?
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