s2ka

Honda tuned the first year S2000 to be great on the Nurburgring, see the video in my signature. It also worked great when the magazines did their reviews and track testing. In the real world the car was tuned too aggressively for average drivers in less than perfect conditions. A lot of average/bad drivers don't have the skills to control a short wheelbase RWD sports car with a limited slip diff. Add the fact that most owners replaced the Bridgestone S-02 tires (that were designed specifically for the S2000) with wider front and narrower rear tires. Another factor that Honda didn't consider was that people run tires that are worn out, and they choose tires that don't handle as well as the OEM tires. And people started lowering their cars with aftermarket springs/shocks that were stiffer than stock with less suspension travel. So it was a recipe for oversteer unless you had a competent driver in good conditions with the right tires.

In 2002 Honda decided to dial in less steering, so they softened the rear suspension and stiffened the front. By that time there were around 20,000 S2000s on the road in America and people were crashing them due to the reasons above.

So for 2004 Honda took another shot at making the handling safer when they went to the AP2 model. First they addressed tires, going with the Bridgestone RE050, which had better wet weather performance and more rear tread depth for a little better rear tire life. Next they softened the springs and sway bars, dialing the handling more in the direction of understeer/safety/comfort. And a change to the rear suspension geometry was made to slightly reduce bump-steer, which was actually already addressed when they softened the ultra stiff rear sway bar found on the 2000-01 cars.

By 2006 there were 40,000+ S2000s on the road in America and people were still crashing them due to the reasons in the first paragraph. Honda added traction control and stability control to make the car safer.

Does the AP2 handle "alot better"? Well I guess it depends on what you like in handling. If you're a good driver with fresh OEM tires on a good surface a stock 2000 S2000 is balanced so you can steer the car at the limit using the throttle. If you're an average driver on worn tires in the rain, then an AP2 is safer. The 2008 S that I owned understeered like crazy compared to my AP1 cars. AP2 in stock form just understeers more when you add throttle. Safer, not as much fun.

A few keys for a good handling AP1:
Replace the stiff 00-01 rear sway bar with a softer AP2 bar.
Don't lower the car too much.
Pay attention to spring rates, CR rates F/R are more than enough for the street.
Get a good alignment.
Use great tires, the S2000 was designed for sticky tires.
Replace your rear tires before they're too worn.
Pay attention to the width of the tires (stagger), most aftermarket tires are nowhere near the width of the OEM tires.
Don't be foolish in the rain and/or cold weather.
All of this is for the street, track cars have much different needs. Any attempt to balance between the track and street is a compromise.

B serious

^No...the AP2 is faster/better in virtually every single way.

Honda improved the car in its 2nd variation.


They didn't dumb it down. They made it better and more driveable at ANY level.

No doubts about that.

Minus the tyres. The RE050 was a downgrade from the S02. Even with this downgrade, the AP2 likely would lap the same circuit faster than an AP1 with the same driver.

s2000Junky

My biggest complaint with the ap2 out of the box is the slower ratio steering rack, which also tamed its handling for the average driver, turn in is not as crisp and quick, especially if you move down to an appropriate 330mm steering wheel. Also its a heavier car. Also the ridiculously heavy 22lb flywheel which makes the engine revs hang in the air with an otherwise great rev happy engine reduced to feeling like a sowing machine for the average driver who will not be rev matching, heal tow or doing anything other then commuting. Part of that cherry on a turd is the narrower vtec window because of the reduce rpm range, causing vtec more prone to dropping out under full acceleration, unless you absolutely bounce off limiter on a flat road, but then further diluting the experience is the cdv which will then kick in causing the clutch to slip wile your trying to get everything you can out of the combination.

The best performing S2k really is a combination of both years, starting with an ap1 chassis, an f22 with a 14lb ap1 flywheel, extended rev band from an ap1 ecu and a rear toe correction kit OR ap2 sub frame. ap2 rear sway, 00-01 front sway. Pick your fav spring rate and wheels/tires

s2ka

I've personally owned 00, 02, 03, and 08 cars, all bought completely stock, either new or with very low miles.

In stock trim I'd say the 00 was fastest and most fun, followed by the 02/03 cars, and in last place would be the 2008. The 00 is the lightest of the bunch, has the most track oriented suspension tuning, and compared to the 08 it has the iconic 9k rpm F20C engine, lighter flywheel, quicker steering rack, and fewer annoying electronic safety nets (TC, VSA, TPMS, DBW). The 08 was the safest of the bunch because it's not easy to spin it out with VSA and that much understeer, and the slight increase in torque from the F22C makes it easier to drive slow (2k-5k rpm)... if that's what you're into.

But in the end they're all basically the same great car, all basically the same speed. AP1 gets my vote for fun factor, AP2 is a better daily driver.

To the OP, I wouldn't bother changing the rear suspension to AP2 unless you can find a complete rear subframe with suspension. Any handling problems you have are most likely due to tires/springs/alignment.

Car Analogy

It sounds like your car has issues. Fix those. Get a later model rear swaybar.

Like was mentioned, ap2 has less bump steer. That is the extent of its performance 'improvements'. Everything else is just softening and taming (and yeah, it has a stronger diff, but don't swap till yours breaks, because if you're not launching, it probably won't ever break).

So unless you are really pushing it, the bump steer isn't going to have any perceptible effect. Your issues in the rain sound like something wrong with your car, not ap1 'deficiencies'.

B serious

Sure. The best peforming S2000 is a combination of the 2...as proven with the CR.

However, MOST of the improved parts are AP2.

AP1's have a shorter ratio steering rack and a lighter flywheel.

So an AP2 needs a AP1 flywheel, a AP1 slave cyl, and a AP1 rack to be the best blend. Maybe an ECU. 06+ models are flashable.

The most advantageous AP1 would take...an AP2 engine, an AP2 trans, AP2 subframe, AP2 UCA's, AP2 spindles, and AP2 swaybars.

Seems like advantage AP2 to me. How is this a contest at all? The better platform is the AP2.

This is not to mention a HOST of reliability concerns that were addressed with the AP2.

An AP2 weighs what? 50-60LB more? Mostly due to wider wheels and tyres which help the car brake and corner better than a 50LB lighter AP1?

What y'all are implying is that, for the 1st time in known human history....a bunch of engineers nailed it on the first release??

B serious

I'm not saying that the AP1 is a shit car. Its fantastic.

I've also maintained firmly (after 12 years of ownership), that an AP1 isn't hard AT ALL to drive. OP should not have issues driving in the rain unless something is wrong.

My point was only to rebute a claim that the AP2 is not an improvement.

Its an improvement. Y'all just crazy. :P

fuzzysig

after installing 2007 shocks and springs and alignment it did get sligntly better

it had espelir springs on it when i bought it. didnt feel twitchy when driving with same wheels nd tires
after installing the stock 2007 shocks and springs it feels better in the rain cornering but it is more twitchy when for example changing lanes
it pops out of 2nd gear for whatever magical reason after swapping suspension
and i can feel it way more shift when i let go the throttle after the bringing it back to stock height.
i drove rwd cars but not this short lol this is freaking me out.

i totally understand the idea of honda wanting to make a legal track car but obviously they got too happy and just assumed that everyone is simply a professional race car driver and will be driving it to and from race track and not ever drive it to work for example in the rain or snow...
and i drove a 2000 year. **** that . i had to make sure there wer eno 2x4 installed instead of suspension. literally my first question was wtf is wrong with the suspension i had complete urethane bushing kit and skunk2 proC set on stiff in my del sol with lo profile tires and was a softer ride than the yr2000 s2k

i need rear control arms right? to get it to ap2 spec?

i also just saw the puppyseed mod rear diff that i think would make more sense to buy instead of the ap2 i do like to launch off the light and did it often in b series... it was fun without fear of dying at every corner tho. i could sloppy the **** out of every corner smashing on gas and pulling the front understeer all the way through the corner in the rain without worrying that i wll bump the ass into the oncoming lane.
gonna have to build another del sol sometime or integra

s2000Junky

Sounds like your rear toe is wonky. also most all seasons have soft single ply sidewall tires that flex way to much and makes the rear end feel like it wants to come around on you wet or dry, doesn't matter, especially a white knuckle experience changing lanes around these rutted freeway roads in the Seattle area. Sounds lik its less a grip issue and more a handling issue the more you explain. This car required stiff sidewall tires to handle properly. Put some starspecs or RE11, even the stock s02 or ap2 re050 etc and make sure your total toe in the rear is in the .2 degree range and no more. And of course make sure your rear end bushings/ball joints are not all worn out and sloppy. You should be railing at that point, nothing ap2 really required.

B serious

......uhhh...

I can think of 1...*maybe 2* reasons that your Del Sol did not kick its tail out while you were mashing the gas thru a corner. Can you think what they may be?

The MY2000 suspension is not as stiff as you explain. I hav no idea what you're talking about.

Your car started displaying issues with changing lanes AFTER installing the AP2 suspension? Are the shocks blown? You did not do an alignment at first?

It seems you're driving very aggressively in the rain and expecting the car to behave like a Del Sol. And your expectation is that the AP2 parts will fix this? Mashing the gas in the rain and understeering thru a corner??

"gee, I wish my S2000 handled like a Del Sol" - said only by one person in the universe.

Lol...Honda made the AP1 very driveable. Its not undriveable or unstable. That's a very easy way for people to dismiss their driving habits. It just doesn't drive like a Del Sol.

You're not using the correct tyres to drive a S2000 (or any car) agressively, BTW. What tyres did you have on your Del Sol? Why not use those?

You have your parts list that you need for the AP2 "conversion". Give it a shot and see how it works. I have a feeling you won't like it because it doesn't feel like a B series integra/del sol.