Battle of the $1200 coilover!
06-12-2015, 10:15 AM
#21
Originally Posted by s2000Junky' timestamp='1433880800' post='23642286
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
The "larger piston" is really a normal size for a monotube. However, I can't think of any twin-tubes with 46mm pistons. It is great that you've had long service out of yours, but it doesn't appear to be the best setup for a new coilover on an S2k. The S2000 Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers seem to be $1500. Why would you get it over a Fortune Auto, assembled to your spring spec in Virginia and service from that site? Above $2400 there are Ohlins, AST, Penske, and JRZ options. And for just street use the non-adjustable Bilstein PSS is under $1100 with springs (it uses the stock top hot).
06-12-2015, 10:30 AM
#22
Moderator
FA or GC/Koni, but really the OEM suspension is hard to beat. I had a set of KW V3s and they're really the starting point at beating the dampening performance of OEM. Adjustability is really the only thing you're getting in the $1200 range. I sold the KWs for $1400 within an hour of having them posted on s2ki.
06-12-2015, 11:17 AM
#23
That is spot on.
You get adjustability, that's really it. You get the ability to add some rebound to match a different spring.
If the OEM stuff were rebuild-able, I would definitely have them re-valved.
You get adjustability, that's really it. You get the ability to add some rebound to match a different spring.
If the OEM stuff were rebuild-able, I would definitely have them re-valved.
06-12-2015, 11:22 AM
#24
Originally Posted by duffman13' timestamp='1434127232' post='23646215
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1433880800' post='23642286']
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
The "larger piston" is really a normal size for a monotube. However, I can't think of any twin-tubes with 46mm pistons. It is great that you've had long service out of yours, but it doesn't appear to be the best setup for a new coilover on an S2k. The S2000 Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers seem to be $1500. Why would you get it over a Fortune Auto, assembled to your spring spec in Virginia and service from that site? Above $2400 there are Ohlins, AST, Penske, and JRZ options. And for just street use the non-adjustable Bilstein PSS is under $1100 with springs (it uses the stock top hot).
[/quote]
I bought my RSDs in 08, so I'm sure the product line has changed since then, just going off of my personal experience. Some of that weird wording could be crappy translation engrish too. Otherwise no arguments from me. I was just stating that not all of the "mad JDM yo" stuff is terrible. At the price, Fortune is probably just as good or better than BC, and I'd rather have something easily revalveable if I needed it.
Honestly, for the money I still don't think there's a better setup for the S2k than Koni/GC offers given its customizability and expandability. I'd go for a toss up between that and custom-valved/sprung PSS depending on price sensitivity for maximum performance per $. Personally I'm staying OEM, maybe going konis with CR springs eventually because I have no intention of lowering the car.
06-12-2015, 12:04 PM
#25
Originally Posted by DavidNJ' timestamp='1434132939' post='23646341
[quote name='duffman13' timestamp='1434127232' post='23646215']
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1433880800' post='23642286']
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1433880800' post='23642286']
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
The "larger piston" is really a normal size for a monotube. However, I can't think of any twin-tubes with 46mm pistons. It is great that you've had long service out of yours, but it doesn't appear to be the best setup for a new coilover on an S2k. The S2000 Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers seem to be $1500. Why would you get it over a Fortune Auto, assembled to your spring spec in Virginia and service from that site? Above $2400 there are Ohlins, AST, Penske, and JRZ options. And for just street use the non-adjustable Bilstein PSS is under $1100 with springs (it uses the stock top hot).
[/quote]
I bought my RSDs in 08, so I'm sure the product line has changed since then, just going off of my personal experience. Some of that weird wording could be crappy translation engrish too. Otherwise no arguments from me. I was just stating that not all of the "mad JDM yo" stuff is terrible. At the price, Fortune is probably just as good or better than BC, and I'd rather have something easily revalveable if I needed it.
Honestly, for the money I still don't think there's a better setup for the S2k than Koni/GC offers given its customizability and expandability. I'd go for a toss up between that and custom-valved/sprung PSS depending on price sensitivity for maximum performance per $. Personally I'm staying OEM, maybe going konis with CR springs eventually because I have no intention of lowering the car.
[/quote]
There we disagree, The Konis are twin-tube. Koni know mono-tube is better; their racing shocks are all monotubes. But not their street shocks. Koni does have an interesting twin-tube in their FSDs, But they aren't revalvable, aren't available for the S2k. We have a set on an E320CDI with Conti DWs. They are very interesting...take potholes better than my QX56 with 33" tires. It has enough compression damping that the rear end moves out under power. The ride is normal E-class as long as the tire pressures are 30psi and below.
Monotubes just work better. Enough that Honda spec'd them as the OEM shock on the S2k. The external valve monotubes like the Multimatic DSSV (standard on the Camaro Z28) and the Ohlins TTX are interesting...but really they are monotubes with external valving.
The Konis with a coilover kit may have been a good solution for 2005...but not for 2015.
Not lowering the car is probably also a good idea.
06-13-2015, 02:42 AM
#26
Actually it was a good solution in 2005 and a good solution today. The oem shocks do not work as well with springs stiffer than stock. Pss can't handle stiffer spring rates. What else is out there for 1200 or less that's not crap?
I have said it before, I would prefer a montube, but that doesn't mean twin tubes don't work with the right setup. Do research on the Koni yellows, they actually have a very functional adjuster compared to anything at this price point.
Ohlins dfv would be my first choice, but that is double the price. An extra 1200 buys a few track days.
I have said it before, I would prefer a montube, but that doesn't mean twin tubes don't work with the right setup. Do research on the Koni yellows, they actually have a very functional adjuster compared to anything at this price point.
Ohlins dfv would be my first choice, but that is double the price. An extra 1200 buys a few track days.
06-13-2015, 04:20 AM
#27
Actually it was a good solution in 2005 and a good solution today. The oem shocks do not work as well with springs stiffer than stock. Pss can't handle stiffer spring rates. What else is out there for 1200 or less that's not crap?
I have said it before, I would prefer a montube, but that doesn't mean twin tubes don't work with the right setup. Do research on the Koni yellows, they actually have a very functional adjuster compared to anything at this price point.
Ohlins dfv would be my first choice, but that is double the price. An extra 1200 buys a few track days.
I have said it before, I would prefer a montube, but that doesn't mean twin tubes don't work with the right setup. Do research on the Koni yellows, they actually have a very functional adjuster compared to anything at this price point.
Ohlins dfv would be my first choice, but that is double the price. An extra 1200 buys a few track days.
BTW, have you computed all the costs associated with a track day? Around here HPDE events seem to be a bit over $300 to register. Add transportation, lodging, expendables, and insurance (either the actual cost or the implied cost of self-insurance) and that isn't that many more days.
06-13-2015, 11:10 AM
#28
Originally Posted by duffman13' timestamp='1434136924' post='23646420
[quote name='DavidNJ' timestamp='1434132939' post='23646341']
[quote name='duffman13' timestamp='1434127232' post='23646215']
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1433880800' post='23642286']
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
[quote name='duffman13' timestamp='1434127232' post='23646215']
[quote name='s2000Junky' timestamp='1433880800' post='23642286']
Funny you mention Buddy Club as junk, however with over 100k miles on mine with multiple track days with still not a whimper or rebuild, id say they have proven to have a better track record as far as quality/reliability goes then some of the higher end brands like KW. This is in regard to the RS model and not the street/N+ coilover which there is a notable difference in performance. Most notable, the larger piston and damping range for up to 14k springs, which at 80k miles I switched to from the standard 10k. But at $1200 budget, you may not be able to afford the RS. For a single adjustable in the $1400-1500 range though, hands down Buddy Club RS takes the cake.
The "larger piston" is really a normal size for a monotube. However, I can't think of any twin-tubes with 46mm pistons. It is great that you've had long service out of yours, but it doesn't appear to be the best setup for a new coilover on an S2k. The S2000 Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers seem to be $1500. Why would you get it over a Fortune Auto, assembled to your spring spec in Virginia and service from that site? Above $2400 there are Ohlins, AST, Penske, and JRZ options. And for just street use the non-adjustable Bilstein PSS is under $1100 with springs (it uses the stock top hot).
[/quote]
I bought my RSDs in 08, so I'm sure the product line has changed since then, just going off of my personal experience. Some of that weird wording could be crappy translation engrish too. Otherwise no arguments from me. I was just stating that not all of the "mad JDM yo" stuff is terrible. At the price, Fortune is probably just as good or better than BC, and I'd rather have something easily revalveable if I needed it.
Honestly, for the money I still don't think there's a better setup for the S2k than Koni/GC offers given its customizability and expandability. I'd go for a toss up between that and custom-valved/sprung PSS depending on price sensitivity for maximum performance per $. Personally I'm staying OEM, maybe going konis with CR springs eventually because I have no intention of lowering the car.
[/quote]
There we disagree, The Konis are twin-tube. Koni know mono-tube is better; their racing shocks are all monotubes. But not their street shocks. Koni does have an interesting twin-tube in their FSDs, But they aren't revalvable, aren't available for the S2k. We have a set on an E320CDI with Conti DWs. They are very interesting...take potholes better than my QX56 with 33" tires. It has enough compression damping that the rear end moves out under power. The ride is normal E-class as long as the tire pressures are 30psi and below.
Monotubes just work better. Enough that Honda spec'd them as the OEM shock on the S2k. The external valve monotubes like the Multimatic DSSV (standard on the Camaro Z28) and the Ohlins TTX are interesting...but really they are monotubes with external valving.
The Konis with a coilover kit may have been a good solution for 2005...but not for 2015.
Not lowering the car is probably also a good idea.
[/quote]
You're technicallyc correct, but Koni is a known quantity and has been around forever. FA has been around how long? 5 years max? If I'm trying to podium on a budget, I'm going with the company who's been in the racing business for the better part of forever. Not to mention when you're talking shocks you're generally talking chasing hundreths. 99.999% of people won't see a tangible benefit from this and would be better served at paying for a couple more track days/autocross clinics and upping their skills rather than buying fancy shocks.
06-13-2015, 11:56 AM
#29
You're technicallyc correct, but Koni is a known quantity and has been around forever. FA has been around how long? 5 years max? If I'm trying to podium on a budget, I'm going with the company who's been in the racing business for the better part of forever. Not to mention when you're talking shocks you're generally talking chasing hundreths. 99.999% of people won't see a tangible benefit from this and would be better served at paying for a couple more track days/autocross clinics and upping their skills rather than buying fancy shocks.
FA is new...but Koni Sports aren't racing shocks. 40 years ago Koni was the dominant racing shock manufacturer. By 25 years ago that had changed; now they are you are selecting them based on price.
So...you are correct...it really doesn't matter. However, the FAs will provide a better ride, be more tuned to work around the springs (especially stiff springs) and probably handle better but not enough better than anyone would notice with a stopwatch.
Historical note: 40 years ago races were timed by a room full of people with split-hand stopwatches. It was a valuable skill that teams needed to time their own cars.
06-13-2015, 11:59 AM
#30
Saying monotubes are always better than twin tubes is like saying turbocharging is always better than supercharging. I will continue to say that monotubes do have some core technical design advantages over twins. However the entire package and application has to be considered including price. Koni yellows are good for 550 springs. Pss can't handle that. That's the reason I broughtt up the fa500. They look interesting and one reason is they are a monitube. But that's not the only reason.