BBK worth it?
11-30-2018, 12:09 PM
#1
BBK worth it?
Stoptech BBK Is It Worth It?
Hey guys, wanted to share my reasoning for purchasing a BBK as I tend to over analyze expensive upgrades on the S I figured maybe others could benefit from my analysis especially since a lot of us guys who are track rats are judged as poseurs for even considering a BBK.
Here’s my situation which I think is similar to many s2000 owners. I drive the car in nice weather, it’s not my daily and I do 3-5 track days a year which I have only been doing for a few years so I’m no pro.
If you’re doing 15+ or even 10 track days a year I think a BBK is a no brainer and will pay for itself quickly in less consumables. If you’re not doing any track days I would say it’s completely pointless. With 3-5 track days a year the general consensus on here is that a BBK Is not worth the investment. People seem to be adamant that you shouldn’t buy a BBK at that level and especially if your new to tracking, blah blah.
I did my own analysis with a fairly detailed spreadsheet using estimates on pad life based on tons of posts from others in s2ki and it turns out that the difference in running costs should be significantly lower even with 5 track days a year. Enough so that it would only take 5 years to pay off the entire BBK ($2000). However that’s really not necessary to make it worthwhile investment as the kit has easily a $1000 resale meaning you only really need to save $1000 in consumables to justify the purchase from a purely financial perspective which would only take 2.5 years.
Even without the financials making sense however there are a lot of other reasons I decided they were a worthwhile purchase.
Hey guys, wanted to share my reasoning for purchasing a BBK as I tend to over analyze expensive upgrades on the S I figured maybe others could benefit from my analysis especially since a lot of us guys who are track rats are judged as poseurs for even considering a BBK.
Here’s my situation which I think is similar to many s2000 owners. I drive the car in nice weather, it’s not my daily and I do 3-5 track days a year which I have only been doing for a few years so I’m no pro.
If you’re doing 15+ or even 10 track days a year I think a BBK is a no brainer and will pay for itself quickly in less consumables. If you’re not doing any track days I would say it’s completely pointless. With 3-5 track days a year the general consensus on here is that a BBK Is not worth the investment. People seem to be adamant that you shouldn’t buy a BBK at that level and especially if your new to tracking, blah blah.
I did my own analysis with a fairly detailed spreadsheet using estimates on pad life based on tons of posts from others in s2ki and it turns out that the difference in running costs should be significantly lower even with 5 track days a year. Enough so that it would only take 5 years to pay off the entire BBK ($2000). However that’s really not necessary to make it worthwhile investment as the kit has easily a $1000 resale meaning you only really need to save $1000 in consumables to justify the purchase from a purely financial perspective which would only take 2.5 years.
Even without the financials making sense however there are a lot of other reasons I decided they were a worthwhile purchase.
- I’m busy and don’t have time to be changing brake pads for track days which to me is pretty much a necessity with stock calipers as I burn through any street-able pads in 2 days, and experience fade.
- I hate replacing pads/rotors at the track. I want to take tire pressures, relax, chat and make notes between sessions.
- Since I am an intermediate with tracking, working hard to improve my skills and have limited time for track days the worst thing is to experience brake fade just as your getting into the groove and ruin your confidence in the brakes. I want the car to be consistent so I have a solid base on which to build my skill set without huge variances in braking distances and lost confidence.
- My idea for my build is to emulate the intended use of a GT3 at a lower level. I.e. a car that has good street manners yet you can beat on it all day at the track without issue. To me the brakes are the biggest hinderance to that philosophy.
- They look good
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LaosguyAP1 (12-12-2018)
11-30-2018, 02:34 PM
#3
check this video out, seems very similar to what you did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JW5thl93Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JW5thl93Q
12-01-2018, 04:16 PM
#4
I would suggest you do the analysis also with the SBG BBK using Wilwood calipers. It's significantly less expensive than Stoptech, especially when you take the cost of replacement rotor rings into account. The rotors can take 20mm pads which gives an additional 4mm of material. That's the path I went after I saw the price increase from ST for rings over the last winter. Time things right and you can get a ~10% discount from SBG too.
That said, either way it sounds like you really want to do this. I was in a similar state of mind going into last spring and finally decided to pull the trigger. It was one of the best decisions I've made on the car (the others being going with Ohlins 11k/11k and going square). I just don't worry about braking anymore - never experience fade, even at altitude where there's less cooling from the ducting. Do it!
That said, either way it sounds like you really want to do this. I was in a similar state of mind going into last spring and finally decided to pull the trigger. It was one of the best decisions I've made on the car (the others being going with Ohlins 11k/11k and going square). I just don't worry about braking anymore - never experience fade, even at altitude where there's less cooling from the ducting. Do it!
12-01-2018, 05:26 PM
#5
Three main benefits: saved time not swapping pads and cracked rotors, improved safety and performance from no brake fade and consistent performance, and reduced running costs. Personally, I did the BBK because I'm a lazy bastard and all I want to do is show up at the track and drive. The peace of mind of not worry about brake fade and cracked rotors is also worth a lot. I've chatted with a number of people and the consensus has always been the same, should have upgraded sooner.
Some more feedback halfway down the page.
https://motoiq.com/project-s2000-tes...r-pyrometer/3/
Some more feedback halfway down the page.
https://motoiq.com/project-s2000-tes...r-pyrometer/3/
12-01-2018, 05:49 PM
#6
I would suggest you do the analysis also with the SBG BBK using Wilwood calipers. It's significantly less expensive than Stoptech, especially when you take the cost of replacement rotor rings into account. The rotors can take 20mm pads which gives an additional 4mm of material. That's the path I went after I saw the price increase from ST for rings over the last winter. Time things right and you can get a ~10% discount from SBG too.
That said, either way it sounds like you really want to do this. I was in a similar state of mind going into last spring and finally decided to pull the trigger. It was one of the best decisions I've made on the car (the others being going with Ohlins 11k/11k and going square). I just don't worry about braking anymore - never experience fade, even at altitude where there's less cooling from the ducting. Do it!
That said, either way it sounds like you really want to do this. I was in a similar state of mind going into last spring and finally decided to pull the trigger. It was one of the best decisions I've made on the car (the others being going with Ohlins 11k/11k and going square). I just don't worry about braking anymore - never experience fade, even at altitude where there's less cooling from the ducting. Do it!
12-01-2018, 05:50 PM
#7
Three main benefits: saved time not swapping pads and cracked rotors, improved safety and performance from no brake fade and consistent performance, and reduced running costs. Personally, I did the BBK because I'm a lazy bastard and all I want to do is show up at the track and drive. The peace of mind of not worry about brake fade and cracked rotors is also worth a lot. I've chatted with a number of people and the consensus has always been the same, should have upgraded sooner.
Some more feedback halfway down the page.
https://motoiq.com/project-s2000-tes...r-pyrometer/3/
Some more feedback halfway down the page.
https://motoiq.com/project-s2000-tes...r-pyrometer/3/
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12-02-2018, 06:35 AM
#8
Aftermarket brake kits are essentially jewelry on street cars especially cars like ours.
Track use, though, with repeated heavy braking and brake fade, i.e. - the ability to keep doing this, may take "better" brakes. General rule of thumb if you can lock the brakes (or activate the anti lock brakes) they're as good as you're gonna get for stopping which is completely dependent on your tires once that brake effort has been achieved.
-- Chuck
Track use, though, with repeated heavy braking and brake fade, i.e. - the ability to keep doing this, may take "better" brakes. General rule of thumb if you can lock the brakes (or activate the anti lock brakes) they're as good as you're gonna get for stopping which is completely dependent on your tires once that brake effort has been achieved.
-- Chuck
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spitfirezip100 (01-15-2020)
12-02-2018, 07:07 AM
#9
For me, the stock brakes, even with ducting, with stock suspension and 225/255 TW200 tires was adequate (barely) but I didn't feel I could justify the BBK given the additional cost of upgrading street and track wheels. But once I upgraded the suspension and went square, even with TW200 tires I was beyond their thermal limits at HPDEs. This was with Hawk DTC-60 pads and Centric rotors.
12-02-2018, 12:23 PM
#10
[QUOTE=Chuck S;24539367]Aftermarket brake kits are essentially jewelry on street cars especially cars like ours.
Track use, though, with repeated heavy braking and brake fade, i.e. - the ability to keep doing this, may take "better" brakes. General rule of thumb if you can lock the brakes (or activate the anti lock brakes) they're as good as you're gonna get for stopping which is completely dependent on your tires once that brake effort has been achieved.
-- Chuck[/QUOTE
Ya for sure. If my car was only street driven it wouldn’t be a consideration. But to me, the people saying you don’t need it for track use and just manage your brakes, I don’t agree with. I want to go full out and learn the whole session without being held back by fading brakes.
Track use, though, with repeated heavy braking and brake fade, i.e. - the ability to keep doing this, may take "better" brakes. General rule of thumb if you can lock the brakes (or activate the anti lock brakes) they're as good as you're gonna get for stopping which is completely dependent on your tires once that brake effort has been achieved.
-- Chuck[/QUOTE
Ya for sure. If my car was only street driven it wouldn’t be a consideration. But to me, the people saying you don’t need it for track use and just manage your brakes, I don’t agree with. I want to go full out and learn the whole session without being held back by fading brakes.