Better upgrade for ap1? Ap2 rear subframe or rear bumpsteer kit
01-09-2018, 10:17 AM
#32
HR makes decent stuff.
I'm trying to find booted spherical rear control arms and spindle bushing replacements for my DD TSX to delete the stupid passive steering.
I'm trying to find booted spherical rear control arms and spindle bushing replacements for my DD TSX to delete the stupid passive steering.
01-13-2018, 02:39 PM
#33
From the goal of reducing toe change, I am not sure why anyone would go through the trouble of replacing the subframe. Your level of success is very quantifiable here. Get a bump steer gauge and confirm your results. You can fine tune your bump steer with the collars and the cam adjuster. With the subframe and factory toe arms, you get what you get.
Now as far as safety and part failures, the inherent design of a BSK makes it more likely to fail than OEM parts. Thats the rub.
Considering the ability to fine tune toe change and ease of installation compared to part risk failure.... I say go bump steer kit.
Now as far as safety and part failures, the inherent design of a BSK makes it more likely to fail than OEM parts. Thats the rub.
Considering the ability to fine tune toe change and ease of installation compared to part risk failure.... I say go bump steer kit.
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mojo_jojo77777 (01-15-2018)
01-15-2018, 12:34 PM
#34
Use will dictate your replacement intervals, heavy track use with r-comps/hoosier etc. should be assumed to drastically reduce life...
01-15-2018, 01:20 PM
#35
The load point isn't necessarily any different then oem depending on how many spacers you stack ( and there is the correct amount listed) but the length of the connecting joint is longer to allow for spacing/adjustment, so the forces are applied to a longer stud overall. If the stud is used with appropriate upgraded steel it should be no less safe then oem. I've never had a failure so I couldn't say what to look for. Id assume it would show signs of bending/binding. its on a ball joint, so it should move/rotate freely back and forth. There is always a horror story or two out there for anything automotive/equipment related, but how many people are running these? Have to keep things in consideration. Stay away from the cheapest option, and go for the ones that are reputable, like Megan, or j's racing etc.
Well...how many OEM arms break in the same way, from the same use? Virtually none.
Its only ball jointed at the arm. Its fixed rigid at the spindle by the nut. How would a longer lever not result in more bending load?
Imagine grabbing the jointed end and pulling it inboard/outboard.
I doubt any current aftermarket company is using STRONGER and more fatigue resistant steel than OEM, for off the shelf solutions.
Its a race part. It requires inspection. Its more likely to break than OEM. That's all I'm saying.
Its definitely more effective at curing bump steer. If Honda felt it was safe enough to just lengthen the stud...they'd probably have done that way instead of designing a new subframe, UCA's and spindles.
01-15-2018, 01:26 PM
#36
Well...how many OEM arms break in the same way, from the same use? Virtually none.
Its only ball jointed at the arm. Its fixed rigid at the spindle by the nut. How would a longer lever not result in more bending load?
Imagine grabbing the jointed end and pulling it inboard/outboard.
I doubt any current aftermarket company is using STRONGER and more fatigue resistant steel than OEM, for off the shelf solutions.
Its a race part. It requires inspection. Its more likely to break than OEM. That's all I'm saying.
Its definitely more effective at curing bump steer. If Honda felt it was safe enough to just lengthen the stud...they'd probably have done that way instead of designing a new subframe, UCA's and spindles.
Its only ball jointed at the arm. Its fixed rigid at the spindle by the nut. How would a longer lever not result in more bending load?
Imagine grabbing the jointed end and pulling it inboard/outboard.
I doubt any current aftermarket company is using STRONGER and more fatigue resistant steel than OEM, for off the shelf solutions.
Its a race part. It requires inspection. Its more likely to break than OEM. That's all I'm saying.
Its definitely more effective at curing bump steer. If Honda felt it was safe enough to just lengthen the stud...they'd probably have done that way instead of designing a new subframe, UCA's and spindles.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 01-15-2018 at 01:30 PM.
07-21-2018, 09:16 AM
#37
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A true standard in the biz for rear (and front) bump steer (camber correcting) kits and ball joints is King motorsports. They sell the Buddy Club racing ball joint kits (and arms) for 170.00 rear and 300.00 front. Unless you are lowered quite a bit the rears are what you need to minimize camber change. They also sell Mugan which is the ex in house Honda corp shop. King has been racing Hondas for a couple of decade's and use what they sell in the cars.
10-23-2018, 06:22 PM
#38
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Hi,
I apologize for resurrecting this dead thread (again), but I have questions regarding the AP1 to AP2 swap.
The AP2 rear subframe requires new UCAs, but I have also noticed that the knuckles appear to be different part numbers. Can anyone confirm that you also need to swap these out? I have a hard time finding a difference between the two and I've seen at least one other member (Trackstar I believe) who has done this say that the knuckles weren't required.
While removing the subframe, are there any parts that you guys like to replace or refurbish?
I apologize for resurrecting this dead thread (again), but I have questions regarding the AP1 to AP2 swap.
The AP2 rear subframe requires new UCAs, but I have also noticed that the knuckles appear to be different part numbers. Can anyone confirm that you also need to swap these out? I have a hard time finding a difference between the two and I've seen at least one other member (Trackstar I believe) who has done this say that the knuckles weren't required.
While removing the subframe, are there any parts that you guys like to replace or refurbish?
10-24-2018, 09:56 AM
#39
AP1 knuckles and AP2 knuckles will fit, physically.
BUT AP2 knuckles are different. The attachment points have moved so that there is less bump steer.
BUT AP2 knuckles are different. The attachment points have moved so that there is less bump steer.
10-24-2018, 10:07 AM
#40
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Thanks. My understanding is that the AP2 upper control arm limits motion of that arm under acceleration and braking, which affected toe arm movement as a side effect. If the AP2 knuckles themselves have physically different attachment points (I assume for the toe arm?), then would I limit bump steer if I simply swapped AP2 knuckles rather than the entire rear subframe? Or, would I only achieve full benefits of bumpsteer reduction by swapping the subframe, UCAs and knuckles?