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-   -   Cooking Rear Brakes Through Track Use? (https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-brakes-suspension-249/cooking-rear-brakes-through-track-use-1193413/)

IndyS200090 04-17-2019 12:35 PM

Cooking Rear Brakes Through Track Use?
 
Some background on the car and its use:
  • The car is a 2001 S
  • Only mods are 4 brake ducts, per the DIY instructions from this site
  • Hawk DTC - 30 pads front and rear for track use
  • I flush the brake fluid every year with fresh Motul RBF 600
  • I track about 4 times per year, usually tracking about 3.5 hours per weekend. Some weekends are more. In other words, I put about 15-20 hours or so of track time on the car per year
  • The tracks I frequent are:
    • Mid Ohio
    • Putnam Park (In Indiana)
    • Indianapolis Motor Speedway
I started tracking about two years ago, the spring after I purchased the car. In the middle of that season, I replaced the rear right caliper (Previously, was the factory one) Last year, I replaced the left rear (Previously, was the factory one). This year, I replaced the front right one (Previously, was the factory one). Up until this point, I chalked it up to age. However, my right rear is sticking once again. In other words, it's only lasted about 1.5 seasons of, I believe, pretty light track duty. Note that I don't have super sticky tires on either. I have Conti ECS tires all around, which shouldn't tax the brake system unduly.

The mode of failure is never total seizure. At least I usually catch them before they get to that point. They'll usually start to drag a bit and cause one wheel to get hotter than the other under braking. I also notice that they're harder to twist back in. These symptoms, lead me to believe that I'm cooking the square seal and that it's becoming stiff and non compliant causing the drag.

On a somewhat puzzling note: the front left is the factory one and still kicking after almost 20 years, no problems at all.

My main question is this: If I continue my current track usage, and I looking at replacing a each caliper every year or so or has my experience been atypical?

A secondary question is: are there any solutions to extend the life of the stock calipers given the extreme heat they see on the track?

Chibo 04-17-2019 02:26 PM

This is not normal, are you replacing them with OEM calipers or some cheapo china rebuilt ones?

IndyS200090 04-17-2019 02:35 PM

The one that failed again was an OEM reman meaning it came from the Honda parts counter at my local dealership but was not a new unit.

I can source Chinesium specials around here (Although, they're still Nissin castings) for around 75 bucks. "New" Honda units around here are about 300 bucks while Honda remans are around 200. In order for the Honda new and reman units to make sense over the parts store specials, they'd have to last 4 and 3 times as long, respectively.

noodels 04-17-2019 03:03 PM

What I noticed is more pad wear, its more prone too not retract into the caliper,due to over piston extension..

IndyS200090 04-18-2019 03:55 AM

That's exactly what I'm experiencing. It's a sign that the caliper is starting to stick and isn't long for this world. A normal, new caliper (reman) retracts fully and there's almost zero drag on the wheel when the brake isn't engaged. This also manifests in increased resistance when I go to wind the pistons back in to refit my street pads.

Bullwings 04-18-2019 08:33 AM

DTC-30s are not up to snuff for regular track use and not with experienced drivers.

Get DTC-60s or 70s.

I also had an intermittent dragging caliper issue. I replaced it with an OEM re-build one from Honda - no problems.

Mike's 04-23-2019 01:01 AM

The heat is bad on stock rear brakes, the end of it you need cooling to the calipers/disk or upgrading to a vented disk setup to cure it

IndyS200090 04-23-2019 05:50 AM

I do have ducts running to the rear brakes. I've stayed away from vented rotors since they require shaved pads, which is a PITA, in my opinion.

Although, come to think of it, I might have run a couple of track days with that caliper before I put ducts on the car.

B serious 04-23-2019 06:37 AM

Are you lubricating the pad slides so that the pads can actually retract?

IndyS200090 04-23-2019 06:47 AM

The slide pins move very freely (I only lubricate them with silicone paste because, in the past, I found that the heat was cooking normal caliper greases into a paste) and the pads can move freely (I can easily move them with my fingers) within the bracket, if that's what you're asking.


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