hai1206vn

There are a few threads out there on this combo but they're old and don't have info that I wanted to see when I was researching. So here's my own experience so far. I'll update this thread as I learn more about the car's behavior.

My car is a 2002 on stock suspension when I bought it. The stock dampers are so-so on the street but get worse at autocross. Maybe they'd aged a bit, maybe they just plain sucked.

Here are my goals when choosing the new setup:

• Improved control for autocross on street tires: Stock springs are not too soft with street tires (Hankook RS3). Although the front dives and rolls way more than I want, the balance is quite neutral; my tire temperature is always dead even at all 4. The problem is in the shocks: there's barely any low speed rebound damping and quick transitions really upset the car, not to mention slow response. Corner exit is also tricky. I constantly fight with the steering wheel to catch the rear.
• Improved ride quality on the street: Stock dampers have too much high speed compression. The car hops over big bumps.
• Stock height: I don't need to go lower; been there done that with other cars and don't see the point for a weekend toy that still spends 90% of the time on the road. Also, stiff may mean sporty, but has no value when you lose grip everywhere.
• Cheap: $240 springs + $600 shocks sound great.

At first I'd wanted to just use Koni with stock springs, but I found complaints about how the Koni's soft compression damping may cause more front scraping. And, with the amount of braking dive I'd seen on stock, it'd only get worse.

The CR springs fit the bill nicely. Stiffer rates up front (246 -> 384 lb/in) to make up for the Koni's softer compression and tame the rear. No change in height. Rear rates are only slightly up from stock 2002 (309 -> 343 lb/in). I leave sway bars unchanged for now.

I installed the new combo this past weekend and went for a drive, without alignment. The softest damper setting is just right on normal streets: more comfy than stock over small/medium bumps but was never underdamped. Huge bumps felt about the same (I guess because of hitting bumpstops). The rear felt like it walked sideways after hitting bumps, but I think it's due to bad toe alignment. So yes, ride quality is definitely improved.

I didn't get a chance to test the real handling ability besides on and off ramps. The front did feel firmer and rolled less through turns. Then again, this is far from the violence it will experience at autocross. More to come as I put it to proper use.

Finally, for those who say the CR springs raise the front, I'd argue that your old stock springs must have sagged so much when you bought the car. In my case, there's virtually no change at all.

Stock AP1 height at 53k miles

With CR springs on Koni yellow upper perches (Koni upper perch = stock perch position)

RedCelica

so why CR springs and not swift spec r?

hai1206vn

Swift spec R springs are only slightly stiffer than CR (10-15%), but drop 1.25". I don't like riding bumpstops.

hai1206vn

I went to 1st event with these settings:
Front: caster 6*, camber -1.5*, toe 0, damper half a turn from full soft.
Rear: camber -2.0*, toe-in 0.3* (1/8"), damper half a turn from full soft.

My calculation says natural ride frequency went from 1.37Hz to 1.72Hz front, 1.44 to 1.52 rear, compared with stock. Understeer recipe for sure.

It actually worked out great. No more crazy front dive, no more wallowing turn-in. It rolls much like stock but transitioning to roll is great. The balance is now slight understeer. Great for time, so easy to drive, maybe not as fun. The tail slides just the right amount entering turns and grips hard on exit. It settles so nicely at the limit, hard to describe. E.g. starting a righthander faster than I would have, I felt the rear slide to rotate, but no need to correct anything. Same with slaloms, just keep the gas constant, throw the car in and let the rear figure itself out. Almost every time I felt slight movement in the back, there wasn't much to fight with. Oversteer only happens at exit with impatient throttle. Complete breakaway is still tricky to catch due to the AP1 bumpsteer.

I do miss the original neutral feel, waiting to swap ends every turn. Now it's really hard to slide around the skid pad, unlike last year at Evo school where I seesawed all day around circles. Before, all 4 tires kept identical pressure after runs; now, front tires end up 1psi more. Neutral was much more fun, but edgy. I can't imagine how the CR feels with even more front-biased sway bars, and greater tire stagger; I really don't need any more understeer.

iamxpl

thanks for the info! this is exactly what i was going to do. are you running upgraded sways?

hai1206vn

Stock sway bars for now. I don't feel that I need more roll stiffness with the current grip level. On the bumpy autocross lot over here I think softer bars may work better (by allowing more independence side to side).

Next thing I'll try is to run same tires (225) all around, to give the front some more bite.

Reliable

Thank you I find your post very interesting as it seems you have similar needs to myself. I'm going with Swift Spec R springs as apparently they ride like stock and Koni yellows with new perch mounts about 10mm higher to avoid hitting bump stops too much with a mild drop of 20mm. (Stock Spec R's give 30mm drop)

I guess it will be very similar to your setup on the lower perch.

m carter

Have any new updates?? Just got some cr springs and new koni's and a 32mm front bar. I have an 03' s2000.
Thanks.

CoolGuy094

Agreed. I had the Koni/Swift Spec R combo and I honestly preferred my stock AP1 shocks/springs over that.

turboef9

Did you get a machine shop to cut the higher perch mount?