Help bled brakes and still pedal sinks to floor
05-05-2018, 10:25 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Help bled brakes and still pedal sinks to floor
Hello all, I have a 20001 AP1 and the drivers front and rear brake calipers were frozen, I reman calipers from RockAuto StopTech calipers. New pads and rotors.
Installed everything and bled it all with a one man bleeder. I started at passengers side rear then drivers rear pass side front drivers front then installed the wheels and when I went to leave my garage the pedal sank to the floor. I have to pump it a few times for it to fully stop the car.
So so I put it back up on jack stands and bled them again same process. Then I found a service manual pdf and found it to say to start at the left front then right front right rear then left rear. So I did that. Again no change pedal still goes to the floor.
So then I found the thread on here about gravity bleeding and did that. The same still persists. I removed the brake master and bench bled it and then reinstalled rebled the calipers and again same issue. I tested the boosted by pumping the pedal with the engine off till pedal got stiff, then started the car, then pedal sank a little then pumped it 2 more times and it got stiff held it down and then shut off the car, pumped 2 more times and pedal got hard and came back up to reserve area. So I know the booster is fine.
I then had my old man help bleed them and he said pedal felt right, started the car in the air and put it in first got the wheels rolling then stepped on the brakes and said pedal was good. I installed the wheels and started the car went to roll out and again the pedal sank to the floor and had to be pumped a few times before it held the car.
I am am at a loss right now. Don’t know what is going on.
Installed everything and bled it all with a one man bleeder. I started at passengers side rear then drivers rear pass side front drivers front then installed the wheels and when I went to leave my garage the pedal sank to the floor. I have to pump it a few times for it to fully stop the car.
So so I put it back up on jack stands and bled them again same process. Then I found a service manual pdf and found it to say to start at the left front then right front right rear then left rear. So I did that. Again no change pedal still goes to the floor.
So then I found the thread on here about gravity bleeding and did that. The same still persists. I removed the brake master and bench bled it and then reinstalled rebled the calipers and again same issue. I tested the boosted by pumping the pedal with the engine off till pedal got stiff, then started the car, then pedal sank a little then pumped it 2 more times and it got stiff held it down and then shut off the car, pumped 2 more times and pedal got hard and came back up to reserve area. So I know the booster is fine.
I then had my old man help bleed them and he said pedal felt right, started the car in the air and put it in first got the wheels rolling then stepped on the brakes and said pedal was good. I installed the wheels and started the car went to roll out and again the pedal sank to the floor and had to be pumped a few times before it held the car.
I am am at a loss right now. Don’t know what is going on.
05-05-2018, 02:21 PM
#2
work on furthest away from cylinder,get old man too pump the pedal & hold foot & preasure on pedal.
release bleed nipple<with care> and get air out there.<care needed not to get in eyes>your finger pressed on nipple will do, and do up with finger still in place.
work your way back repeating the above.
if it does not work repeat.2/3 times<and top up as needed>keep lid on also so fluid does not squert everywhere..
Air goes too the highest point.
release bleed nipple<with care> and get air out there.<care needed not to get in eyes>your finger pressed on nipple will do, and do up with finger still in place.
work your way back repeating the above.
if it does not work repeat.2/3 times<and top up as needed>keep lid on also so fluid does not squert everywhere..
Air goes too the highest point.
05-05-2018, 05:10 PM
#3
You likely still have air in your lines somewhere. There's another trick to getting air out of your lines.
1. Pop your hood and open your brake fluid reservoir
2. Pull the fuse to your brake lights
3. Wedge a stick on to your brake pedal to keep it depressed
4. Let it sit over night (or longer)
Also, when bleeding your brakes, stick with the gravity method, it's fool proof and will ensure you don't get air in the lines, just have to keep the reservoir topped off and you should be fine.
1. Pop your hood and open your brake fluid reservoir
2. Pull the fuse to your brake lights
3. Wedge a stick on to your brake pedal to keep it depressed
4. Let it sit over night (or longer)
Also, when bleeding your brakes, stick with the gravity method, it's fool proof and will ensure you don't get air in the lines, just have to keep the reservoir topped off and you should be fine.
05-05-2018, 10:26 PM
#4
You likely still have air in your lines somewhere. There's another trick to getting air out of your lines.
1. Pop your hood and open your brake fluid reservoir
2. Pull the fuse to your brake lights
3. Wedge a stick on to your brake pedal to keep it depressed
4. Let it sit over night (or longer)
Also, when bleeding your brakes, stick with the gravity method, it's fool proof and will ensure you don't get air in the lines, just have to keep the reservoir topped off and you should be fine.
1. Pop your hood and open your brake fluid reservoir
2. Pull the fuse to your brake lights
3. Wedge a stick on to your brake pedal to keep it depressed
4. Let it sit over night (or longer)
Also, when bleeding your brakes, stick with the gravity method, it's fool proof and will ensure you don't get air in the lines, just have to keep the reservoir topped off and you should be fine.
I use a $30 hand held vacuum pump, available from several sources. I think I got my last few from Harbor Freight. I connect it to the bleeder, pressurize it, the crack the bleeder either keeping the pressure up or closing it before it bleeds too far.
05-06-2018, 06:32 PM
#5
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...ravel-1178221/
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...times-1034298/
Billman gravity bleed method.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...evised-995456/
That said, once you get air trapped in your lines, it's a big pain to get out. Good luck
05-06-2018, 08:46 PM
#6
It's the Billman method and has worked for me and others. It's worth a shot, and is fairly easy to do.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...ravel-1178221/
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...times-1034298/
Billman gravity bleed method.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...evised-995456/
That said, once you get air trapped in your lines, it's a big pain to get out. Good luck
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...ravel-1178221/
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...times-1034298/
Billman gravity bleed method.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...evised-995456/
That said, once you get air trapped in your lines, it's a big pain to get out. Good luck
1) Your description doesn't match any of the links provided.
2) Only one of the links recommends anything close to what you recommended. It hypothesized that the pressure would cause the bubbles to break up and drift to the master cylinder and then, when the pedal is released, they would move from the master cylinder to the reservoir. Interesting hypothesis, somewhat lacking in empirical results.
3) Gravity bleed, discussed online in various places (e.g. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/the-t...r-brakes/28681, How To Gravity Bleed Brakes), involved setting up the brake bleeders into a bottle and letting gravity push clean fluid through. Probably works. Never tried it.
4) Robinette included SpeedBleeders in his post on brake bleeding (you posted a link to master cylinder bleeding). That may be the best solution for someone challenged in doing this. It replaces the bleeders with one-way check valves. They are set up with the plastic hose into the bottle, opened 1/4 turn, then pump the pedal. The air goes out but is prevented from entering. (https://robrobinette.com/bleed_brakes.htm).
05-08-2018, 09:47 PM
#7
Do not do the Billman order if you have air in the lines (like you did, you changed the calipers). BIllman order is for gravity bleed, or for brake fluid changes without a lot of air in the line. Ask me how I know.
You need to bleed in the factory order: it is FL, FR, RR, LR. Sounds like you tried it once. Do it again but when you go to each caliper give it a good knock with a rubber mallet to help get the air bubbles up to the bleeder valve. You might need to run through a good 500cc or 1L of fluid just to make sure you get everything out. Good luck, don't worry, if you don't have a leak, the pedal will come back.
You need to bleed in the factory order: it is FL, FR, RR, LR. Sounds like you tried it once. Do it again but when you go to each caliper give it a good knock with a rubber mallet to help get the air bubbles up to the bleeder valve. You might need to run through a good 500cc or 1L of fluid just to make sure you get everything out. Good luck, don't worry, if you don't have a leak, the pedal will come back.
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05-09-2018, 04:04 PM
#8
1) Repeat bleed in factory order. Pedal will likely still be soft, might even go to the floor.
2) Wedge brake pedal overnight. Pedal should be noticeably firmer -- might still be soft at the top, but by now it should stop the car fine, and you should be able to engage ABS.
3) Go for drive and find a safe place to engage ABS for about *two full seconds continuously*. This removes the last of the air from the ABS module. The pedal should immediately return to full stiffness. Note that it must be a single long ABS engagement, the little split-second "bup-bup" engagements won't work no matter how many times you repeat them.
2) Wedge brake pedal overnight. Pedal should be noticeably firmer -- might still be soft at the top, but by now it should stop the car fine, and you should be able to engage ABS.
3) Go for drive and find a safe place to engage ABS for about *two full seconds continuously*. This removes the last of the air from the ABS module. The pedal should immediately return to full stiffness. Note that it must be a single long ABS engagement, the little split-second "bup-bup" engagements won't work no matter how many times you repeat them.
05-10-2018, 04:58 AM
#9
I seem to learn something new on this site almost daily. This one is a real gem. I imagine something similar applies to most all cars with modern abs. So very useful to know!
So I'm guessing it doesn't matter how forcefully the pedal is pressed, just that abs gets engaged long enough for the slow moving air to make its way up and out? So abs on a slick surface would work just as well, yes?
So maybe on a wet day, empty area, much less speed needed to accomplish this. The tires we use often have a lot of grip, so engaging abs that long in the dry might require high speed and very, very hard stop. Not the safest thing to do on street.
So I'm guessing it doesn't matter how forcefully the pedal is pressed, just that abs gets engaged long enough for the slow moving air to make its way up and out? So abs on a slick surface would work just as well, yes?
So maybe on a wet day, empty area, much less speed needed to accomplish this. The tires we use often have a lot of grip, so engaging abs that long in the dry might require high speed and very, very hard stop. Not the safest thing to do on street.
05-10-2018, 01:01 PM
#10
^ Yes, it's not always easy to find a safe place to something like a 60-0 stop! There's a fairly small but *very* steep hill in my neighborhood that I've used -- it's maybe 30mph posted limit, but no homes on the steepest part, so I made sure no one was behind me and successfully "bled" the ABS module by braking 50-10. Cruised to the stop sign a few hundred yards later and the pedal was a rock.