Help with suspension choice!
05-26-2017, 09:46 AM
#11
But shocks are a different matter. It seems scrap yards are parting cars, and selling the shocks individually. Perhaps the wreck damaged one or more, so they don't have a full set. But they often don't list the year or miles, and they want crazy money for one shock. Often close to or more than a set of Konis if you were to go for 4 auctions.
Apparently, gone are the days of finding decent set of 4 affordable oem shocks on fleabay.
05-26-2017, 08:14 PM
#12
So different options for different buyers.
If you are a fan of quality in durability and no weird sounds, there is honestly no better choice than stock or spoons showa shocks (which showa is Honda's factory suspension component)
The great part about the CR dampers is that they are very capable, on auto cross or on track and absolutely zero fuss, that's the beauty of oem quality.
If you go aftermarket it really depends on the buyer, personally for me if you want oem quality and reliability but want height adjustability or performance then I would go Bilstein PSS, PSS9 or KW v3. The V3s are a really good product, reliable like stock, lifetime warranty, excellent documentation for setup
I'm not a huge fan of the ohlins DFV product principally because they don't have oem items like brake line guides. If you are gonna say it's a racing product, then in that case I would rather go with a monotube, double adjustable with a rear reservoir to keep the oil temperature down.
In terms of rebuild the bilsteins have awesome support and be customized. There's even a ton of diys on the matter.
Ohlins in that sense are pretty easy to rebuild and service, too - once you have all their overpriced specialty tools. I service and rebuild my ohlins suspension on my motorcycles which use a ttx36 - it ain't the best shock, but it does have the most information out there for support - go to a local club race and pretty much everyone has a gold shock.
If you are a fan of quality in durability and no weird sounds, there is honestly no better choice than stock or spoons showa shocks (which showa is Honda's factory suspension component)
The great part about the CR dampers is that they are very capable, on auto cross or on track and absolutely zero fuss, that's the beauty of oem quality.
If you go aftermarket it really depends on the buyer, personally for me if you want oem quality and reliability but want height adjustability or performance then I would go Bilstein PSS, PSS9 or KW v3. The V3s are a really good product, reliable like stock, lifetime warranty, excellent documentation for setup
I'm not a huge fan of the ohlins DFV product principally because they don't have oem items like brake line guides. If you are gonna say it's a racing product, then in that case I would rather go with a monotube, double adjustable with a rear reservoir to keep the oil temperature down.
In terms of rebuild the bilsteins have awesome support and be customized. There's even a ton of diys on the matter.
Ohlins in that sense are pretty easy to rebuild and service, too - once you have all their overpriced specialty tools. I service and rebuild my ohlins suspension on my motorcycles which use a ttx36 - it ain't the best shock, but it does have the most information out there for support - go to a local club race and pretty much everyone has a gold shock.
05-26-2017, 08:52 PM
#14
So different options for different buyers.
If you are a fan of quality in durability and no weird sounds, there is honestly no better choice than stock or spoons showa shocks (which showa is Honda's factory suspension component)
The great part about the CR dampers is that they are very capable, on auto cross or on track and absolutely zero fuss, that's the beauty of oem quality.
If you go aftermarket it really depends on the buyer, personally for me if you want oem quality and reliability but want height adjustability or performance then I would go Bilstein PSS, PSS9 or KW v3. The V3s are a really good product, reliable like stock, lifetime warranty, excellent documentation for setup
I'm not a huge fan of the ohlins DFV product principally because they don't have oem items like brake line guides. If you are gonna say it's a racing product, then in that case I would rather go with a monotube, double adjustable with a rear reservoir to keep the oil temperature down.
If you are a fan of quality in durability and no weird sounds, there is honestly no better choice than stock or spoons showa shocks (which showa is Honda's factory suspension component)
The great part about the CR dampers is that they are very capable, on auto cross or on track and absolutely zero fuss, that's the beauty of oem quality.
If you go aftermarket it really depends on the buyer, personally for me if you want oem quality and reliability but want height adjustability or performance then I would go Bilstein PSS, PSS9 or KW v3. The V3s are a really good product, reliable like stock, lifetime warranty, excellent documentation for setup
I'm not a huge fan of the ohlins DFV product principally because they don't have oem items like brake line guides. If you are gonna say it's a racing product, then in that case I would rather go with a monotube, double adjustable with a rear reservoir to keep the oil temperature down.
?? DFV's come with brake line guides. They're not marketed as a racing product. They're even named Road and Track.
Bilsteins are an OEM level quality product...but KW's really arent. KW's are definitely very nicely calibrated for the S2000 application, I'll admit. But the Ohlins are more comfortable AND more agressively sprung at the same time. And they're cheaper at this point.
05-26-2017, 11:25 PM
#15
KW are fussy and need regular rebuilds. I would rather run my mid level Buddy club rs single adjustable which have exceeded my expectations in reliability and overall performance as mentioned. Ohlins cost more and aren't going to make you any faster on the track, just an incrementally better street ride, which I consider a luxury, not a necessity. I run 14k spring rates, its not a car for comfort, its for performance which the Buddy Clubs support, along with OEM reliability, but the added flexibility of adjustment/set up. When my Buddy clubs finally tank I would consider the Ohlins, but being still relatively new to the s2000, i want to see some more longevity trends to better gauge how well they will hold up to my buddy clubs. Those recommending investing in replacing with more oem/CR dampers are high. The factory dampers are not that great performing, they are harsh in low speed compression damping with not enough rebound damping, and they offer no adjustment, they also start to noticeably deteriorate in 70-80k miles which my buddy club have double that and still going strong. OEM will be the imitating factor on your cars performance threshold, and for the money they cost makes no sense unless your forced to run them for a particular racing class.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 05-26-2017 at 11:27 PM.
05-27-2017, 10:15 AM
#16
Originally Posted by s2000Junky
KW are fussy and need regular rebuilds. I would rather run my mid level Buddy club rs single adjustable which have exceeded my expectations in reliability and overall performance as mentioned. Ohlins cost more and aren't going to make you any faster on the track, just an incrementally better street ride, which I consider a luxury, not a necessity. I run 14k spring rates, its not a car for comfort, its for performance which the Buddy Clubs support, along with OEM reliability, but the added flexibility of adjustment/set up. When my Buddy clubs finally tank I would consider the Ohlins, but being still relatively new to the s2000, i want to see some more longevity trends to better gauge how well they will hold up to my buddy clubs. Those recommending investing in replacing with more oem/CR dampers are high. The factory dampers are not that great performing, they are harsh in low speed compression damping with not enough rebound damping, and they offer no adjustment, they also start to noticeably deteriorate in 70-80k miles which my buddy club have double that and still going strong. OEM will be the imitating factor on your cars performance threshold, and for the money they cost makes no sense unless your forced to run them for a particular racing class.
Most people don't know how to setup a dampers adjustments: Ride height, preload, compression, rebound, corner weight. If you aren't going to get those right, what's the purpose of having a 400 way adjustable damper?? That's just more ways and adjustments to get lost and lead you astray.
I've setup the suspension for most of my friends, recommended a kw clubsport or worked with whatever they had, after I've finished monkeying with the adjusters, they rarely ever tinkered with it - so realistically they could have bought properly sprung and critically damped valving non adjustable dampers and called it a day. But hey we all get attracted by the multiple clickers, fancy colors, external reservoirs or piggybacks and spherical top hats.
With regard to kw v3s needing to always be rebuilt. I notice most people are running the ride height out of the recommended range of kws documentation. But again they aren't indestructible, but they do come with a lifetime warranty, kw club sports - do not. I would never recommend a KWs if you want customize valving or change spring rates - that's just not the suspension for that person.
As far as CR shocks not being capable, I witnessed psychoazn run a 2.00 flat on my CR without its wing on buttonwillow CW13 with 225/255 fresh rs3s at that time.
As far as spring rates, a lot of cheap suspension companies compensate for crappy dampers with high spring rates so that you get that "sporty" feel.
05-27-2017, 10:38 AM
#17
∆∆∆ A damper and spring rate work together. Assuming the OEM damper has fantastic damping character from the factory(which is arguable in itself) means your stuck running factory spring rates if you want to get the best out of them, however stock doesn't get you the best out of the car if your improving it's grip capability - which is why you move to higher spring rates. "Feel" is subjective, perfomance/laptimes isn't, so you spring the car according to grip, it all works together. Your buddy running cr suspension and getting a good lap time is a symptom of good driving. No one with experience building high level performing s2000 is going to argue for stock dampers over good alternatives that are adjustable.
Generally yes, once you set up the damping adjustment to your spring rate and get the car to do what you want, you dont fuss with it anymore except for small tweaks based on different tracks or if it's a shared duty street car. The ability to tune the car is important game here, and without adjustable coilovers your giving up a lot of your ability to dial in the chassis behavior. The alternative is then moving to a custom internally valved set up which you better get right the first time, it's going to cost more and you can throw them away rather then make a adjustment when you decide to move in a different direction in the cars build/set up. There is nothing practical about your position.
Generally yes, once you set up the damping adjustment to your spring rate and get the car to do what you want, you dont fuss with it anymore except for small tweaks based on different tracks or if it's a shared duty street car. The ability to tune the car is important game here, and without adjustable coilovers your giving up a lot of your ability to dial in the chassis behavior. The alternative is then moving to a custom internally valved set up which you better get right the first time, it's going to cost more and you can throw them away rather then make a adjustment when you decide to move in a different direction in the cars build/set up. There is nothing practical about your position.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 05-27-2017 at 10:42 AM.
05-28-2017, 04:59 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Yeah but 135k on original shocks is kind of a bit much right? I haven't really felt how it feels like with properly working shocks since i bought the S in Jan, so to me i feel like this is just going to avoid a problem later down the road. I'm looking for like a 90% daily and 10% weekend warrior, since it will be my daily driver till i have enough money to buy an actual daily driver, and then i can start turning it into a track car. i'm not really trying to put used parts on the car, cuz i don't mind paying more for that extra peace of mind. I also don't mind the coilovers having too much performance over stock as well, because i'm still kind of learning the car and probably won't be able to take full advantage of the performance.
05-28-2017, 06:32 PM
#19
KW are fussy and need regular rebuilds. I would rather run my mid level Buddy club rs single adjustable which have exceeded my expectations in reliability and overall performance as mentioned. Ohlins cost more and aren't going to make you any faster on the track, just an incrementally better street ride, which I consider a luxury, not a necessity. I run 14k spring rates, its not a car for comfort, its for performance which the Buddy Clubs support, along with OEM reliability, but the added flexibility of adjustment/set up. When my Buddy clubs finally tank I would consider the Ohlins, but being still relatively new to the s2000, i want to see some more longevity trends to better gauge how well they will hold up to my buddy clubs. Those recommending investing in replacing with more oem/CR dampers are high. The factory dampers are not that great performing, they are harsh in low speed compression damping with not enough rebound damping, and they offer no adjustment, they also start to noticeably deteriorate in 70-80k miles which my buddy club have double that and still going strong. OEM will be the imitating factor on your cars performance threshold, and for the money they cost makes no sense unless your forced to run them for a particular racing class.
Öhlins are not new to the S2000. R&T's have been around since dinosaurs were using fossilized S2000's for fuel.
I doubt they'll go 150K miles sans service, however.
The ride quality, responsiveness, and feel are amazing...and to keep that level of sharpness...they'll likely need service in 30-60K mile intervals, depending on use.
05-30-2017, 08:24 AM
#20
Öhlins are not new to the S2000. R&T's have been around since dinosaurs were using fossilized S2000's for fuel.
I doubt they'll go 150K miles sans service, however.
The ride quality, responsiveness, and feel are amazing...and to keep that level of sharpness...they'll likely need service in 30-60K mile intervals, depending on use.
I doubt they'll go 150K miles sans service, however.
The ride quality, responsiveness, and feel are amazing...and to keep that level of sharpness...they'll likely need service in 30-60K mile intervals, depending on use.
30-60 miles service intervals on a car that may see that in 5 years or less, I consider not a super strong selling point to me. Id consider that high maint, so id have to weigh the total cost and performance to see if its worth it over something that has a bit more longevity before they either go in the dumpster or deal/pay for a rebuild. Its a consideration people have to make for themselves.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 05-30-2017 at 08:28 AM.
