spdracerut

#1. You're car is an 03 on stock suspension. The suspension is probably toast.

#2. $6k race Motons with shit tires will still equal a car that handles like shit.

oldsoldier

Get you car to a performance shop for a track alignment, buy a set of sticky tires like Toyo, Khumo. or hoosier. Remember most times smother is faster. If your sliding you either let off the gas or feather it around the turn.

Jay's AP1

I've heard great things about the Star Specs. Probably best all round tires (not track), best bang for the buck and etc. I guess I'm just getting to know my car now.

Agree. That's why I was thinking I need new suspension and the tires are ok for now since I'm not tracking a lot. I believe stiffer suspension should control or at least less sliding on turns. Also the driving style, I'm more aggressive rather than smooth, after all I havent been to track more than a few times.

I dont track a lot, mayb a few times a year if any.

ZDan

Holy CRAP! Worst advice EVER, esp. for AP1! Do NOT "let go of gas" when the back end starts to slide. You will want to maintain neutral throttle. Obviously you don't want to nail the throttle to the floor, but abruptly lifting off the gas will unload the rears and you will LOSE rear grip and be much more likely to spin. This is ESPECIALLY true for the AP1 with it's rear toe-in-with-bump, as when you lift off the gas the outside rear will toe relatively outward. Massive increase in oversteer, X2.

You need to get the car slowed enough such that by the time you're at the apex you're able to begin applying throttle and keep ON the throttle the rest of the way through. If you're driving the right line, and not carrying too much speed in, getting on the throttle will load up the rears and stabilize the car from apex to track-out. At S2000 power/weight, throttle-on oversteer isn't a big issue, you should be full throttle pretty soon after apex. Your line through the corner should allow you to unwind the steering as you gain speed between apex and track out.

Generally, ON the gas => UNDERsteer, OFF the gas or on the brakes => OVERsteer

Geez, this is performance driving 101, kids!

Regarding stock '03 suspension being "toast" by now, there's no reason it should be. My '01 has 130k miles and ~22 track days on it, suspension is A-OK.

ZDan

^^^ This here! ^^^

ZDan

If you don't have the BASICS down, you shouldn't be trying to be "aggressive"! You mentioned not being on the brakes or on the gas. You should be partly on the brakes or on the gas for most of the corner. Only for a brief instant will you be neither on the brakes some amount nor on the gas some amount. As I mentioned above, your line needs to allow you to begin to get on the gas just past apex, and stay on the gas all the way through.

What do you have for tires now? I think you missed the point if you think that you DO need new suspension but the tires are "ok"! The point was, excellent suspension plus crap tires = crap handling. Address the tires first! They're a lot cheaper too.
As for stiffer suspension giving you more control, if your technique is off, stiffer suspension might give you MORE problems with traction.

Seat time will yield improvement. Get as much as you can!
Regarding tires, address that (depending on what you have for tires now) before suspension. IMO, for tracking a few times a year, stock suspension might be your best bet especially if you dd the car.
REgarding alignment, on stock suspension you'll want to maximize camber front and rear (should be about -1.5 degrees front, -2.25 rear), zero front toe, and ~.2-.3 degrees TOTAL rear toe (.1 - .15 degrees per side). Don't use the stock AP1 or the UK alignment, both prescribe too much rear toe, which will make the car more evil-handling/twitchy while at the same time hurting turn-in.

Jay's AP1

^The alignment you mentioned, is that also good for DD? I dont want to have a track alignment and eat the tires since I dont track it everyday.

Tires, I'm still on the Sumitomo HTR Z III. I may look for some star specs then. I wanted to get star spec after I get new rims, but I see the point where if you got shit traction, no matter what suspension you get you'll get shit traction cuz tires are the only things that touches the ground.

ZDan

Yes, alignment specs above are good for DD, I dd my car on them over my 104-mile/day round trip commute. Over 2 degrees negative camber does give some asymmetric wear, but that's only going to cost you on the order of 10% lost tire life. More important is toe. Excessive rear toe can knock 50% off of rear tire life! Running minimum rear toe as spec'd above will give good tire life even with -2.25deg rear camber.

HTRZ III's are pretty good tires: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=149
Not on par with Star SPecs, but certainly should be trackworthy.
If they have some tread left in them, I'd stick with them until they need replacing. Work on your line, and a more "slow in/fast out" approach to cornering. You should be on the gas soon after apex and shouldn't have to get off it until the next braking zone.

Jackie Stewart on cornering: "Don't put the power on until you know you don't have to take it off"

dan_uk

my 03 stock was pretty nice balance the rear will slide a bit but its predictable...
I think you need to do some more driving before you start messing with it

auto-x helps a lot

FluKy15

Jay I think its your tires. Dont add a rear sway bar, add a thicker sway bar to the front if anything. Stock suspension on the s2000 is really great. How does the wing feel?