S2GARAGENYC

Sup all,

Lately I've been wondering if I can bring a bit more out of my suspension by messing with my settings overall with concentration on the sway bars, here's the breakdown before asking questions:

AP1
17x9 - 255's square
Ohlins DFV 12k F / 10k R - I run the dampers at 2 clicks from full stiff front and 4 clicks from full stiff rear for spirited driving / track days. 6/8 street.
Eibach F&R sways - front stiff / rear soft
Spoon total bushing package
Spoon front BSK
Spoon subframe collars
Spoon steering collars
Hardrace rear BSK

Alignment 2.2F/2.6R with 1/4" total toe in the rear

I have yet to toy with my sway bars at this time and I'm just curious to get some input on what to try and expect. I know that the best thing to do is change things around and drive, however there's a severe lack of information on the subject after doing much searching on the boards. Most of the data I find pertains to non-staggered guys only running a big front bar. So I thought it'd be a good idea to have this F&R sway bar thread going for non-stag guys like myself.

The first thing I would like to try is running my rear dampers a lot looser than the fronts than the usual 2 click difference I run currently. For example 2 clicks front, 6 rear.

please keep in mind that I'm I'd rather tweak what I have rather than remove my rear sway.

Thanks in advance!

DanielB

You haven't told us what aspect of the cars handling characteristics you want to change. We should probably start there.

S2GARAGENYC

I'm not really sure in all honesty, sometimes I feel like the car is prone to oversteering in corners. I suppose I was looking for suggestions on what might be most ideal given my modifications. My nearest racetrack is 120mi away and backroads aren't really the safest or greatest testing grounds. The car truly is more a street car that sees maybe 3 track events per year. Here's a video that shows almost exactly what I sometimes experience both on backroads and track. however this could also be poor driving technique as well, no doubt, I'm new to this:

noodels

Think matching your spring rates would be a good starting point.
mine was looking like that with 100/80 NM ohlins with cr front bar.<04my>
was suggested I remove fsb or match springs ie:100/100 nm.
I removed fsb and was back to normal bias
will fit 100/100nm+replace cr fsb as suggested to get bias back.

DanielB

A few things to think about:

• Work on being smoother with your steering inputs. Sharp inputs can cause the tire to slip more especially if it's near the limit of grip.
• Soften the rear shocks. Stiff shocks reduce compliance on anything other than perfectly smooth roads. I would not run anywhere near that stiff (2/4) on the street. In fact, I recently experimented changing from 3/3 on the track to 6/6 and felt I didn't give up anything and in return the car was more stable at the limit. FYI, I'm running the SBG Ohlins with 10k/10k and stock MY00 bars.
• What are the rear tire pressures? On the street, I'd keep them on the lower side - mid 30's warm. Again, that will make them a bit more forgiving when at the limit of traction.

I don't think you need to change any hardware, at least not yet. I'd experiment with these types of adjustments. If you still can't get the car to feel stable, then maybe think about changing hardware.

S2GARAGENYC

really appreciate the feedback, i'm going to experiment with shock settings as per your suggestions in lieu of messing with sway bars first. I'll report back once I tackle the exact same road. I don't have a track day scheduled until the 14th of June where I'll really be able to apply some testing. In regards to tire PSI, I usually keep them right around 32psi square. Also for what it's worth it was my first time on this backroad and likely should have scouted it first rather than try to chase down my friend's Evo X which has been there a dozen times.

thomsbrain

To me that looks like you have understeer. Your car won't rotate, so you dial in extra steering and keep slowing the car down past the apex to try to compensate, trying to get the car to turn. Then when you finally get the car slowed down enough for the front to grip, it of course snaps on you, because you've got too much steering dialed in. This is one of those times when it is easy to be tricked into thinking you have an oversteer problem but that behavior is actually the result of corner entry understeer. With your spring rate stagger and your camber stagger, the setup is going to understeer. It will feel really safe and predictable... until it snaps. You want spring and/or sways that balance more towards the rear, and ideally more front camber than rear camber.

s2ka

Since it appears you're driving primarily on public roads... my experience is that sway bar stiffness makes a big difference. If the rear sway bar is too stiff the rear of the car will bounce over bumps and cause it to be unsettled and unpredictable on rough surfaces. Try bolting on an AP2 stock rear sway bar. You can get them used for under $50 and they're super easy to swap. Basically the mentality of "stiffer is better" works good on a racetrack but doesn't translate very well to street driving. Companies like Eibach usually just make their springs and sway bars XX% stiffer than stock. Unfortunately Eibach used the AP1 baseline for their springs/sways, so they ended up with a rear bar that's way too stiff. Softening your sway bars, especially the rear, will help your car conform to bumps on the street and give you more traction and predictability. The front is probably too stiff for the street as well.

Car Analogy

This is your current setup, as compared to stock ap1 & ap2, all years.

You can see your current F/R % bias is similar to stock '06 ap2. Your NF is nicely balanced F vs R (ideally F is higher, so both ends settle around the same time.) Your NF is also in the range of not being too harsh (>2 Hz is often cited as where things get harsh). Your Wheel Rates are pretty stiff, but as NF shows, not too crazy. This is static, spring balance only. Your alignment and shock settings are not factored in here. But your base balance is understeer biased, but not significantly.

Car Analogy

This is if you leave Rear swaybar set to High, and switch Front swaybar to low setting. Your bias has been shifted rear, and now you are closer to '04 ap2 balance.