S2000 factory brakes
02-24-2015, 06:36 AM
#1
S2000 factory brakes
I was pondering this morning on the drive to work, as I hit the brakes in my Fit, about the S2000's brake system. I thought that the brake setups are exactly the same between the S2000 and the Fit. Both have vented front rotors and non-vented rears with one-cylinder calipers. Why did Honda decide to give the S2000 a brake setup that is the weak link in tracking the car. Couldn't they have matched the brake systems performance a bit better with the rest of the car? The balance is excellent. The rotation is excellent. The high-rev acceleration is excellent. But the brakes fail when you push the car to its limit. Many people have ashed oem pads due to the heat that is generated from the car. I know there are solutions but for a car that is so at home on a track, the brakes are obviously a fail.
02-24-2015, 08:22 AM
#2
the car is built to a budget.
you're talking about an S2000, not a 911.
The reason the brakes aren't better is because the OEM system is simply 'good enough'
if you intend on tracking the car or pushing hard often, then a set of uprated pads and a performance fluid will enable you to do this in a stock power car for relatively little money.
you're talking about an S2000, not a 911.
The reason the brakes aren't better is because the OEM system is simply 'good enough'
if you intend on tracking the car or pushing hard often, then a set of uprated pads and a performance fluid will enable you to do this in a stock power car for relatively little money.
02-24-2015, 11:37 AM
#4
Registered User
Keep in mind that more pistons doesn't necessary equate to shorter stopping distances (search the net...won't derail the thread here). It's all about matching the brakes to the car. One thing to keep in mind is that vented rotors weigh more than non-vented so that may have been a consideration that went into making the decision for the rear (along with price of course).
On the track, the pads end up being the weak link so as Kangaroo suggested, pads and fluid upgrade (just in case), is all that's needed to get it track ready. Even with the stock pads, you will not reach their limit on the street. If you're that concerned with the rear being non-vented, consider getting drilled rear rotors. I have them on my S and have compared rotor temps on a couple of track days. My drilled rear rotors were about 100 degrees lower (~300-350) vs. stock rear rotors (~400-450). My theory is that the holes provide more surface area for cooling. Also, since the rear disc is solid, getting rear drilled rotors will not lead to the hairline cracks that drilled vented rotors experience.
On the track, the pads end up being the weak link so as Kangaroo suggested, pads and fluid upgrade (just in case), is all that's needed to get it track ready. Even with the stock pads, you will not reach their limit on the street. If you're that concerned with the rear being non-vented, consider getting drilled rear rotors. I have them on my S and have compared rotor temps on a couple of track days. My drilled rear rotors were about 100 degrees lower (~300-350) vs. stock rear rotors (~400-450). My theory is that the holes provide more surface area for cooling. Also, since the rear disc is solid, getting rear drilled rotors will not lead to the hairline cracks that drilled vented rotors experience.
02-24-2015, 02:57 PM
#5
SInce when are the stock brakes bad. The hardware on paper is not that impressive I will admit. But they actually work quite well. On fluid and oem pads I did 25 minute sessions on street tires with zero issues. I have not tracked another car that had a better oem brake setup. The z51 brakes in my c6 were on the same level.
Pads , lines and fluid is all you need for n/a cars with street or rcomp tires.
Pads , lines and fluid is all you need for n/a cars with street or rcomp tires.
02-24-2015, 07:17 PM
#6
Moderator
Stock brakes are good for street, autocross, spirited drives, and light track duty. Once you get fast on track, stock brakes are inadequate. They are undersized and cannot disperse heat and are prone to overheating which causes extreme pad wear and stock brake rotors are know to crack easily. These are all facts, just go search the R&C forum. The majority of experienced s2000 drivers/fast s2000 drivers all burn through pads after 4-6 events and usually crack rotors on a regular basis.
02-25-2015, 05:02 AM
#7
A few things for folks to keep in mind.. The brakes were designed for the AP1 first off, which comes with 205/225 tires. When people start putting 255's (and stickier rubber at that) all around, the problems with the brakes on track show up pretty quickly. In '99 when it came out street tires weren't as sticky. Ultimately the brakes are inadequate for serious track use, but few mfrs build cars with brakes to stand up to track abuse. It's an economics thing, and can't necessarily fault honda for it. Porsches come with multi piston calipers f/r and bigger brakes, but you're paying for it.
Trending Topics
02-25-2015, 05:33 AM
#8
Im glad I am getting some discuss here. SlowTeg, it makes sense with more rubber on the road AND stickier rubber, the brakes begin to fail. I have replaced my front rotors with reverse mount directional blanks from centric, and replaced my pads with a set of carbotech xp8s as well as DOT4 fluid. I have a set of centric blanks for the rear and switch all rotors and pads for track days. It works very well.
As my OP stated, I was wondering why my 16K FIT has the same brake setup as my 34K S2000. Seems like they should have upped the brakes a bit.
Rdizzle, it would be amazing if drilled rotors lowered your temps by 100F!!!!! How were you investigating this? Everything I have read about drilled/slotted/jhook rotors (from anecdotal to testing to theoretical physics) seems to point in the direction that the less mass you have on a rotor, the less heat it is able to absorb and then subsequently release.
As my OP stated, I was wondering why my 16K FIT has the same brake setup as my 34K S2000. Seems like they should have upped the brakes a bit.
Rdizzle, it would be amazing if drilled rotors lowered your temps by 100F!!!!! How were you investigating this? Everything I have read about drilled/slotted/jhook rotors (from anecdotal to testing to theoretical physics) seems to point in the direction that the less mass you have on a rotor, the less heat it is able to absorb and then subsequently release.
02-25-2015, 06:02 AM
#9
Community Organizer
A few things for folks to keep in mind.. The brakes were designed for the AP1 first off, which comes with 205/225 tires. When people start putting 255's (and stickier rubber at that) all around, the problems with the brakes on track show up pretty quickly. In '99 when it came out street tires weren't as sticky. Ultimately the brakes are inadequate for serious track use, but few mfrs build cars with brakes to stand up to track abuse. It's an economics thing, and can't necessarily fault honda for it. Porsches come with multi piston calipers f/r and bigger brakes, but you're paying for it.
02-25-2015, 06:23 AM
#10
Moderator
Originally Posted by SlowTeg' timestamp='1424872937' post='23518432
A few things for folks to keep in mind.. The brakes were designed for the AP1 first off, which comes with 205/225 tires. When people start putting 255's (and stickier rubber at that) all around, the problems with the brakes on track show up pretty quickly. In '99 when it came out street tires weren't as sticky. Ultimately the brakes are inadequate for serious track use, but few mfrs build cars with brakes to stand up to track abuse. It's an economics thing, and can't necessarily fault honda for it. Porsches come with multi piston calipers f/r and bigger brakes, but you're paying for it.
Good post
