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For those that have gone from stock brakes (meaning caliper and rotor size) to a BBK, the difference is night and day. While you have a point that replacement rotors are expensive, so are pads on stock calipers that only last you a weekend. Cost wise I'd say there's a slight edge to the BBK, but the other multitude of other positives far outweigh any minor cost difference. With a square setup or larger front tire, the BBK becomes a necessity imo. Yes there are people that make due with the oem brakes with some expensive girodisc rotors, but they aren't cheap. With oem brakes, when you factor in fast pad wear, inconsistent braking, uneven pad wear (you're asking a whole lot of the single piston brakes), cracking rotors, and lost track time due to cracked rotors, it's just not worth any marginal cost savings.
To each their own for sure. Some tracks aren't hard on brakes and some people are slow which means less heat in the brakes. Also, if you keep the stock staggered tire sizes the oem brakes are just barely sufficient imo.
Yes, the BBK calipers have larger pads than the OEM and therefore last longer. The larger pads need multiple pistons to distribute the load; that is why some S-class Mercedes have 8-piston brakes, it is all about pad wear. The rotor that works in conjunction with with the OEM caliper is smaller than most BBK kits, both smaller OD and less thickness. It won't handle as much thermal energy.
Single piston floating calipers can work just fine. They had been the norm on all BMWs until relatively recently. They are on Spec Racer Fords and Spec Miatas. There is nothing 'inconsistent' about them. Maybe if you didn't ride the brakes?
Originally Posted by SlowTeg
Sorry, I got off on a tangent. Yes, a BBK probably has marginal benefit for a 1/2 mile race. Depending on the racing, I thought 1/2 mile races usually have a lot of space to slow down, so my vote would also be to something like the Hawk HP+ pads. Another thing to consider is aero and balance as mentioned. I assume there'll be some sort of large wing involved to keep the rear planted at 200mph. I'd be careful hitting my brakes hard at 200mph (transferring the weight off the rear could be very dangerous). A prachute is probably ideal, but not sure if it's allowed or common in many half mile races.
From what I can tell 1/2 mile racing is on unused airfields. Depending on the field the cars may be relatively close or not. Some are using parachutes (required in 1/4 mile racing over 150mph), many aren't. The braking distance isn't just slowing down, but dealing with incidents when they happen. That could include a component failure on your car or a problem with the other car. It probably isn't unheard of for an animal, spectator, or someone unaware of the event wandering on to the race track.
I don't see how an S2000 makes any sense for this. 800hp GT-Rs do maybe 170mph. The S2k has too short a wheelbase, the wrong aerodynamics, and the little engine would have to have some crazy boost pressure and run a mega-octane fuel to generate that kind of power. It would be less expensive to run a modified Z06 or Supra Twin Turbo. Either should be fairly straightforward to bring up to the 1200hp range.
I don't see how an S2000 makes any sense for this. 800hp GT-Rs do maybe 170mph. The S2k has too short a wheelbase, the wrong aerodynamics, and the little engine would have to have some crazy boost pressure and run a mega-octane fuel to generate that kind of power. It would be less expensive to run a modified Z06 or Supra Twin Turbo. Either should be fairly straightforward to bring up to the 1200hp range.
None of this makes any "sense" when you get down to it, we are car enthusiast/hobbyist and there is a group of S2000 guys that are passionate about boosting the **** out of their S2k's and drag racing them. Im not totally up to date on the OP current build but if I recall he is around 800whp on his relatively stock F20. Yes he is running high oct fuel - E85 and a lot of boost 30+ psi. So??
I want to see what this car will run in 1/2, shitty aerodynamics and all!
I say do it top down too! Ive done 140mph top down in this car. Its loud and windy!
Last edited by s2000Junky; 04-06-2017 at 08:38 PM.
The new build will be anywhere between 950 and 1050 whp and should have it completed within the next couple months. I've had the S up to about 165 in a short burst and didn't have any issues with it then. I also plan on changing the steering to slow it down some.
Single piston floating calipers can work just fine. They had been the norm on all BMWs until relatively recently. They are on Spec Racer Fords and Spec Miatas. There is nothing 'inconsistent' about them. Maybe if you didn't ride the brakes?
Do single piston calipers stop the car? Yes. Are they very consistent and apply even pressure to both pads and equally? Certainly not. I'm not the first to have issues with the OEM brakes.. If they're good enough for you or you can get by with them, great. But to say they are functionally equivalent to a BBK is laughable. Honda is known for being cheap on brakes. The s2000 is no different. Next we're going to hear you arguing how the solid rear disc is good enough and "stops the car just fine." lol
None of this makes any "sense" when you get down to it, we are car enthusiast/hobbyist and there is a group of S2000 guys that are passionate about boosting the **** out of their S2k's and drag racing them. Im not totally up to date on the OP current build but if I recall he is around 800whp on his relatively stock F20. Yes he is running high oct fuel - E85 and a lot of boost 30+ psi. So??
The new build will be anywhere between 950 and 1050 whp and should have it completed within the next couple months. I've had the S up to about 165 in a short burst and didn't have any issues with it then. I also plan on changing the steering to slow it down some.
What's your time and trap in the quarter? Do you have speed vs. time/distance data? Do you already have a chute? I'm guessing an 800hp S2k has a trap speed in the mid 140s.
Did you upgrade the rear studs and/or hubs?
What are you doing to raise the power levels? More boost? Larger displacement? Lower friction? Vacuumed crankcase? 1050 hp doesn't seem like enough to hit 200 in 1/2 mile.
Originally Posted by SlowTeg
Do single piston calipers stop the car? Yes. Are they very consistent and apply even pressure to both pads and equally? Certainly not. I'm not the first to have issues with the OEM brakes.. If they're good enough for you or you can get by with them, great. But to say they are functionally equivalent to a BBK is laughable. Honda is known for being cheap on brakes. The s2000 is no different. Next we're going to hear you arguing how the solid rear disc is good enough and "stops the car just fine." lol
Floating calipers can only apply equal pressure. The force required to overcome initial hysteresis is small compared to braking force.
The number of pistons is function of distributing the load over a large pad. Only the piston area counts for force, whether it is one large piston or 4 smaller ones in a row (on one side of the caliper). When they have one piston the pad tends to squarer. If the car has much sticker tires (say 275mm race rubber vs. 215mm street rubber) the stock caliper may not be able to apply enough force, especially with a street pad. The equations are straightforward needing only pad friction coefficient, piston area, brake line pressure, and the radius the pad is acting on. It makes no difference whether the pad is big or small, the caliper is floating or fixed, the caliper has one piston or eight, etc.
Did you have problems with the stock calipers after leaving them to rust in a swamp for 6 months?
Update note: The rear S2000 calipers are virtually always single piston floating calipers, usually OEM. To the best of my knowledge StopTech has the only rear fixed piston caliper kit for the S2000, and that doesn't have a parking brake.
What's your time and trap in the quarter? Do you have speed vs. time/distance data? Do you already have a chute? I'm guessing an 800hp S2k has a trap speed in the mid 140s.
Did you upgrade the rear studs and/or hubs?
What are you doing to raise the power levels? More boost? Larger displacement? Lower friction? Vacuumed crankcase? 1050 hp doesn't seem like enough to hit 200 in 1/2 mile.
I have only had the car roll racing on the street, so I don't have any 1/4 mile data. I have some logs somewhere of 60-130 mph runs but I can't remember what they are. No chute at this point and probably won't add one. Yes, mid to upper 140s would be about right for 800 whp
Rear hubs are stock at this moment but will be upgraded to 31 spline. Right now I have 1000 whp drive shaft and 600 whp axles.
I have the same 2.0 10.5:1 CR engine and head build now as Carey Bales and Red Star and with a 6466 turbo but may switch to the 6870 and boost levels will be somewhere in the mid to upper 40 psi range. The crank case is open to atmosphere vented from both valve cover ports. I'm not saying I'll hit 200 mph within 1/2 mile but it's the goal if achievable.
I have only had the car roll racing on the street, so I don't have any 1/4 mile data. I have some logs somewhere of 60-130 mph runs but I can't remember what they are. No chute at this point and probably won't add one. Yes, mid to upper 140s would be about right for 800 whp
Rear hubs are stock at this moment but will be upgraded to 35 spline. Right now I have 1000 whp drive shaft and 600 whp axles.
I have the same 2.0 10.5:1 CR engine and head build now as Carey Bales and Red Star and with a 6466 turbo but may switch to the 6870 and boost levels will be somewhere in the mid to upper 40 psi range. The crank case is open to atmosphere vented from both valve cover ports. I'm not saying I'll hit 200 mph within 1/2 mile but it's the goal if achievable.
In both cases aren't these to be 9:1 compression, 60+ psi boost cars making around 1800hp?
Carey's was around 10:1 CR and making about 1300 hp on the motor from what I was told. He sold it about a year ago. Redstar is either 10:1 or 10.5:1 like mine and making about 1500 or so hp on the motor. Both engines have the same basic build aside from a slight CR difference.
04-06-2017, 12:03 PM
Ive done 140mph top down in this car. Its loud and windy!
